Very basic equipment to attempt ICORE competition in classic division

[pskys2]

2 hours ago, Toolguy said:

Looks good. Speed loaders normally go in from the top, though.

Think he has it upside down if you look at the attachment.

[Toolguy]

I figured. Just kidding.

[Couch-Commando]

Don't know why the pic is upside down, lol. 

 

I havent tried to make holsters yet. The premise seems simple, you just need to fabricate a press. You don't have much time to form the kydex, but if you mess it up you put it back in the toaster oven. 

[pskys2]

16 hours ago, Couch-Commando said:

Don't know why the pic is upside down, lol. 

 

I havent tried to make holsters yet. The premise seems simple, you just need to fabricate a press. You don't have much time to form the kydex, but if you mess it up you put it back in the toaster oven. 

I've re-shaped, adjusted?, quite a few kydex holsters.  The mounting attachments are where I seem a bit fuzzy.

[Couch-Commando]

I watched many hours of educational youtube before attempting the speed loaders. Most of the holsters I saw were simple pancake holsters. Basically, you smash two pieces of kydex together with a gun in between, then rivet the two pieces together. For these holsters, belt loops are installed by drilling holes into the "flat" parts of the pancake, in front of and behind the gun.

 

I am mulling over getting the DAA Alpha X holster, and was briefly considering trying to fabricate a kydex holster instead. I don't know how to DIY an attachment point for, say, a blade tech drop offset mount. My best guess would be to use a thin wood block under the gun to create a recess when you press the kydex form. This allows you to drill the mounting attachment with no risk of the screws gouging the gun.

[practical_man]

CC

 

I’ve made a couple kydex holsters during the cold and dark winter months. For mounting attachement, i used a small block of wood under the revolver.  Modeling clay stolen from the kids helps hold everything in place during forming. 
 

i haven’t been entirely happy with the results of holster forming. Thin Kydex is easier to form, but not very rigid for a holster. Thicker kydex is harder to form and would benefit from more rigid fixtures than clay. You might have better luck tho. 
 

You can buy a forming plate for the TechLoc that doubles as a drilling guide. I light try to fab something similar out of scrap this winter. 

[practical_man]

Toolguy makes a serviceable holster for long barrel revolvers. I have one and like it quite a bit for games. It’s very adjustable to accommodate different barrel lengths. Works well with my K, L, and N frame revolvers is all calibers. 

[pskys2]

57 minutes ago, practical_man said:

Toolguy makes a serviceable holster for long barrel revolvers. I have one and like it quite a bit for games. It’s very adjustable to accommodate different barrel lengths. Works well with my K, L, and N frame revolvers is all calibers. 

We're going to the 4th Sunday for the ICORE MCPSL Matches, come on out.

[Couch-Commando]

I'll have to look into that holster.

 

In unrelated news to holsters, I have discovered a problem. It all started with attempting my own trigger job (please read to the end before flaming me, lol). I spent a lot of time figuring out how the internal parts work, and did NOT touch the single action engagement surfaces. I smoothed out in particular the bottom of and sides of the rebound slide, which was obviously grinding, along with the sides of the hammer and trigger, which were also grinding a bit. Again, I came nowhere near the single action engagement surfaces on the hammer or trigger.  I put it together, along with a 12 pound rebound spring, and I had hammer push off. Believing I must have accidentally touched a single action engagement surface, I bought an india stone to sharpen the single action sear engagement on the trigger. In the same batch of parts and tools, I got an 11 pound rebound spring. I sharpened the trigger sear and put it all back together, at which point I had a very serious push off problem. It would push off with only a few pounds of pressure.

 

I then put the stock rebound spring in, and there is no push off. I then tried progressively lighter springs. At 13 pounds and above, there is no push off. At 12 pounds there is push off. At 11 pounds the pushoff is extreme.

 

Now for my tech question; I've read conflicting information. One, I've read that a push off condition with any weight rebound spring is a safety problem solved by either restoning the surface or a new trigger (or a new hammer if you seriously messed it up). Alternatively, I've read that light rebound springs can cause the pushoff situation or make it way worse. Should I buy a new trigger?

 

ETA: I am fairly mechanically inclined, and love taking things apart to see how they work. This has been a really fun process, and I definitely see myself getting more Smith and Wessons to tinker with!

Edited November 18, 2022 by Couch-Commando

[Toolguy]

The angle on the trigger where it engages the notch in the hammer is critical. When stoning that part, you want to lay the stone on a hard, flat surface. Lay the hammer on the surface and move it back and forth along the side of the (square) stone, which is held still. This keeps the back face of the trigger exactly perpendicular to the sides of the trigger. Also, you want the top surface of the trigger at about 80 degrees to the side of the stone, or 10 degrees closed from 90. This gives you the proper angle to hold the hammer without pushoff. Make sure you end up with a sharp edge where it fits in the hammer notch. Doing this will correct pushoff on about 90 percent of guns that have it. The other 10 percent will probably need new parts.

[Couch-Commando]

I completely fixed the trigger sear with a stone, and now no more push off with any combination of springs.

 

Now that I broke and unbroke this gun, I've been giving more thought to guns and gear. First, I'm 87% sure my wife bought me an Alpha X holster for Christmas. She even encouraged me to buy the 929 I saw at a local gun store, but I resisted since we have a baby coming in two weeks. I'm pretty well dead set on making Classic my main division. My plan was to stick with my 29 for awhile, but I'm starting to realize how big the point of impact shift will likely be between magnum and powder puff ammo. If I can't devise a set of magnum and wimpy loads that will shoot reasonably close to point of aim, I will either have to buy a new gun or rezero this one before and after each deer season. This isn't a huge deal I suppose, since the local ICORE matches end right around the time deer season begins. But it does make for a good excuse to buy another gun.

 

I've noticed that vintage K frames in 38 special are way cheaper than I had originally thought. I just watched several in decent shape go for under $400 to $600 on gunbroker. Any reason why an old 38 special K frame like a model 14 or model 15 would be a bad idea? Part of my thought process is these 38 special models seem to go for a lot cheaper than the model 19, and they should be in better mechanical shape (thinking specifically the forcing cone) since no one has shot magnums through them (hopefully). For a dedicated ICORE gun, I see no reason to care about 357 magnum.

 

The advantage of the K frame over the L frame seems to be 1) the guns are cheaper, 2) the charge holes are closer together) and 3) I like the aesthetics of old, well used S&Ws.

 

I'm also trying to think through the disadvantage of using my 44 magnum. So far I've come up with the following:

1) Can't find light weight round nose bullets, 2) It will always be loaded a little hot for a match with a 120 minimum power factor 3) no competition speed loaders like the jet loader or comp 3 (I do have comp1s, which I think are good enough) and 4) if I want another one, it is going to be quite expensive.

 

Eventually I'm thinking I would like to shoot two divisions in ICORE (classic and Limited), and occasionally shoot revolver in USPSA when I am bored with carry optics. I did see a brand new 929 at a local shop this weekend. I opted to be responsible and not buy it because I'll have a newborn baby to play with instead in a few days. I figure if I am going to eventually shoot limited and classic, I'd prefer a 9mm revolver if shooting 44 Russian in classic, but would prefer the 357 if shooting a 38 special in classic to keep my ammo the same.

 

[practical_man]

CC

 

Congratulations on the new baby. We have had a bunch of those over they years.  They’re all unique little blessings and loads of fun while they’re small. Less fun when the age gets to double digits, but still a blessing. 
 

On K frames vs others. I’m no expert compared to some of the guys on here. I like the K frames. I shot a model 14 pretty often before I quit chasing DR points because of eyesight deterioration. That revolver has been drilled and tapped for an optic mount by the states most skilled machinist. It now serves duty as the coyote pistol out on the tractor. One killed last spring and one this fall. K frames will do the job if I do my part. 
 

That said, the K frame forcing cone is the weak link. I’ve seen more than one cracked forcing cone in PPC and Bullseye guns. It happens even with standard pressure loads. Barrels are cheap so don’t let that scare you off. 
 

The model 15 is generally a 4” gun. I’m sure you can find longer barrels because S&W has made all kinds of variants of everything. 

All that given, I like the L frame for durability. They aren't cheap these days. 
 

no experience with the 9mm revolvers. 

[Couch-Commando]

It turns out babies are quite time consuming, lol. I unfortunately missed the first two ICORE matches of the year. But at long last I sat down today to load some ammo with the 44 russian cases pskys2 gave me a few month ago. I still need to test and zero.

 

I've also impatiently waited for six months for double alpha to get revolver hangers back in stock. I'll be using leather until they do. With any luck, I'll be at the next match!

[pskys2]

12 hours ago, Couch-Commando said:

It turns out babies are quite time consuming, lol. I unfortunately missed the first two ICORE matches of the year. But at long last I sat down today to load some ammo with the 44 russian cases pskys2 gave me a few month ago. I still need to test and zero.

 

I've also impatiently waited for six months for double alpha to get revolver hangers back in stock. I'll be using leather until they do. With any luck, I'll be at the next match!

Just in time for the international postal match!

[Couch-Commando]

I was unable to find the time to zero the gun in time for the match last weekend, but after recovering from my initial disappointment that the hanger for my Alpha X holster wasn't long enough to accommodate my extremely long barrel, $20 worth of tools and materials later on Amazon, I was able to develop a solution.

 

[Joe4d]

Just saw a video , evidently there are speed loaders for a Schofield... Now I gotta have one.. WOuld be really classic,,,  Oh even better, get it machined for moonclips and shoot it in Limited 6

[pskys2]

8 hours ago, Joe4d said:

Just saw a video , evidently there are speed loaders for a Schofield... Now I gotta have one.. WOuld be really classic,,,  Oh even better, get it machined for moonclips and shoot it in Limited 6

Now that sounds cool

[gargoil66]

That is professional work IMHO.

 

Doesn't Warren have something like that for the Hogue Speed holster?

 

GG

[practical_man]

10 hours ago, gargoil66 said:

That is professional work IMHO.

 

Doesn't Warren have something like that for the Hogue Speed holster?

 

GG

He does indeed. He was using it last weekend. He might even have some on the shelf.