Leading in PCC barrel

[Boomstick303]

I have given a pretty decent search and did not find anything specific to this question.  

 

I use to use JHP bullets so the part of the bullet that has exposed lead is not in direct contact with the burning powder.  The JHP bullets I was using started acting up in my PCC so I have since switched to FMJ Rn type of bullets to prevent/minimize malfunctions.   

 

I have had some pretty severe leading on the comp of my GMR15 PCC.  Some of it came from some coated bullets which I stopped using when I was done doing some testing and noticed the build up on the comp.  I then switched to some 124 gr PD FMJ bullets and noted I was still getting a lot more leading than expected on the comp.  I do not care about the leading on the comp because I am able to remove it with a little sweat equity, but I am concerned I am leading the barrel.  I do not typically clean barrels in any of my guns, because I have read and seen first hand the barrel seems to self clean as various jacketed rounds pass through the barrel.  The PCC is plenty accurate currently, but I am concerned that build up of lead will cause issues down the road.

 

I guess my question is should I be cleaning any barrel that I am using a FMJ bullet or a bullet that has exposed lead on the back of the bullet. 

 

For those cleaning their barrel due to possible lead build up, what is your maintenance periodicity in regards to cleaning the barrel.  

[CClassForLife]

I run a bore snake through my PCC barrels every 1-2k rounds. My GMR-15 Ultralight barrel doesn't seem to exhibit any leading issues. I run 125gr coated TC for reference.

[Racinready300ex]

You could look at something like the Montana Gold CMJ's. Round nose like a FMJ but no exposed base like a JHP. 

 

I've been using coated, and honestly haven't looked down the barrel to see if there is any leading, I'm just going to assume there isn't. lol 

[zzt]

B, clean the barrel to squeaky clean, the lube with Weapon Shield.  Your barrel leading problem will end.  I run patches soaked in Weapon Shield Solvent, then dry patches until the come out clean.  Then I lube with Weapon Shield oil.

[Boomstick303]

2 hours ago, CClassForLife said:

I run 125gr coated TC for reference.

 

If my memory serves me right that barrel is the short barrel with the shroud?  And you do not see any leading on the shroud using coated bullets?  What powder are you using?

[CClassForLife]

23 minutes ago, Boomstick303 said:

 

If my memory serves me right that barrel is the short barrel with the shroud?  And you do not see any leading on the shroud using coated bullets?  What powder are you using?

 

Yeah, it's with the shroud. I'm using mainly Titegroup, but I've ran Winchester AutoComp through it as well. Internally, the shroud is a greater diameter than the rifling. The bullet never comes into contact with it. There's always going to be a slight carbon buildup but never to the point where there's an obstruction. JP recommends accessing the barrel crown through the cleaning ports every 5k rounds and getting rid of the caked carbon on the shims. For my non-shrouded barrels, (Faxon 4.5, 10.5, and 16) the thought of leading never even crossed my mind.

[Boomstick303]

To my understanding leading has nothing to do with contact with the bullet.  It is the vaporization of lead as the powder burns then collecting on the surfaces of the barrel and the comp as the vaporized lead cools.  

 

I do not own that type of barrel but I have heard of coated bullets being more susceptible to lead vaporization due to the lower melting point of the coating.   From what I have read coated bullets with the shrouded barrel leads to lead build up on the shrouds.  Maybe what I read was overblown.  

[CClassForLife]

You're right. I know Taccom sells a cleaning tool for shrouded barrels. Just in my experience, it's never been a concern. To be fair, I don't have a heavy amount of rounds through PCC. Probably less than 8k through all 4 of my PCCs combined. Perhaps @Darqusoull13 has more insight on whether leading has ever been an issue in his barrels.

[Boomstick303]

4 minutes ago, CClassForLife said:

8k through all 4 of my PCCs

 

How do us common folk get by?

[CClassForLife]

3 minutes ago, Boomstick303 said:

 

How do us common folk get by?

 

Most of them are bargain bin specials haha. In hindsight, I'll take a single JP-5.

[Boomstick303]

Just now, CClassForLife said:

I'll take a single JP-5

 

They seem to be the ticket.  Waiting for my  JP-5 to drop.  I wanted to sell my GMR15 but I would take a bath on it in the resale of it, so I installed one of those Roller Delayed buffers in it.  Works pretty good.  Best for minimal dot movement out of anything else I tried with that GRM15.  

[Darqusoull13]

23 hours ago, CClassForLife said:

You're right. I know Taccom sells a cleaning tool for shrouded barrels. Just in my experience, it's never been a concern. To be fair, I don't have a heavy amount of rounds through PCC. Probably less than 8k through all 4 of my PCCs combined. Perhaps @Darqusoull13 has more insight on whether leading has ever been an issue in his barrels.

A few separate things going on here.

Leading
Leading hasn't been an issue for me since I shoot either Syntech or jacketed bullets now. Previously shooting Blues buildup was mostly carbon as well. HiTek coated bullets are notorious for leading in comps. Open guys have known this for decades but if you're running a comp, do yourself a favor and shoot JHP's or now quality coatings that wont burn off. 

Carbon Prevention
Typically I see more carbon buildup and there's a few things you can do to limit that. First, Titegroup, while amazing, accurate and cheap, is dirty. It also burns hot compared to other powders. If you can run either Bullseye or better Sport Pistol carbon buildup will go down significantly. N320 is also cleaner burning but VV is somewhat unobtanium during parts of the year. 

Cleaning
For shrouded barrels, the JP barrel has a port cover that you remove to clean the crown of the barrel for their 22LR and 9mm Ultralight barrels. I've cleaned my 9mm version once. It was not difficult, I just just chipped it out with a dental pick. That buildup was mostly just carbon. I'm currently testing whether the Hoppes Gun Medic is sufficient to prevent buildup in that type of barrel. 

For my 22 shrouded barrels, I'm also testing the Gun Medic trick. I did run a bunch of lead 22 for a while but I'm not terribly concerned. Mini Mags are a bit more accurate in the JP-22 though so that helps. The Clean 22 was also bomb for reducing buildup and dang did it shoot soft! 

For an actual comp like the JP-5, the Hoppes Gun Medic has been an angel sent down to personally make my life easier. I do a quick spray the comp before or after I shoot as I can remember and buildup is reduced drastically. Hoppes works far better than the lanolin spray trick because it also removes whatever buildup accumulated. 

Other things that work have been:

• Soaking in Boretech, though it takes longer than the Hoppes. Super easy to soak the crown 
• Dental Pick is likely the fastest but you have to be careful with the crown
• Dremel might be faster than the dental pick in the ports, not used on the crown

JP-5
The JP-5 is by far the best way to go for a PCC. 

[Old3GNR]

I've been running Delta Precision 124 JHP in my GMR13 with no barrel issues.  I do occasionally clean the comp.  I just recently picked up a 4# N320 from Midsouth Shooters.

[Boomstick303]

I do not have a shrouded barrel.  I have the 14.5 with Pin and weld comp.  

 

I use to use MG 124 Gr JHP and Sport pistol, and did not have very many issues with leading with this load.  Once MG became somewhat scarce I switched to PD 124 Gr JHP with Clean Shot powder.  The gun would not run with the PD 124 Gr Version 1 JHP.  The profile at the nose of the bullet is slightly different than the MG 124 Gr JHP.  Failure to feed was the issue due to the profile of the bullet.  At least that seemed to be the issue.  

 

I have some PD 124 Gr JHP Version 2 and RM 124 Gr JHP that I need to test to see if I have the same failure to feed issue.  I have a feeling since both of those bullets have a more round profile at the end of the JHP that they will feed better, but I feel there will be a slight chance of failure to feed with any JHP.

 

This is the reason I switched to RH 124 gr FMJ bullets.  The obvious downside is the exposed lead on the bottom of the bullet to which the powder can burn.  I have tried Plated but I did not feel they were as accurate as the RN bullets.  

 

I love Sport Pistol and have about 20 pounds or so of it.  I save that for pistol practice ammo where I use coated bullets.  Sport Pistol has become almost as hard to find as N320, and I believe it is due to Federal buying it all up for the Syntech line for obvious reasons.  At least that is what I heard through the grapevine, but have yet to find anything definitive on that rumor.  

 

Since powder has become so hard to come by I have three different pistol powders for different ammo.

 

Sport pistol - Coated bullets only

Clean Shot - PCC ammo

N320 - Competition Pistol ammo

 

Sport Pistol and N320 are amazing in how clean they burn.  Extremely accurate as well.  Easy to clean guns and almost no powder build up.  

Clean shot is good but not as good as the previously noted powders.  The residue from Clean shot is a little harder than the other two powders as well.  This leads to it being a little bit harder to clean, but not the worst I have dealt with.

 

I did not have any leading issues on the comp with the JHP bullets of any type.  

Ridiculous leading issues using any coated bullet.

Bad leading issues with FMJ bullets.  

 

I have completely cleaned the comp.  I am curious if the leading issues with the FMJ bullets are due to having leading on the comp already from using Coated bullets which  left lead build up on the comp.  I did not clean the comp before switching to FMJ bullets so maybe the existing lead made buildup even easier?

 

I intend to put something on the comp to minimize (hopefully prevent) build up.  

 

Thank you to all of you for the input and ideas.  

[zzt]

B, JHPs with a wide HP are difficult to feed in a PCC.  HAP and Zero JHPs and Everglades 115 round nose JHPs feed fine  I load all of them to 1.145" for PCC.