Open minor guns

[moose97]

2 hours ago, Cuz said:

You might find that even after you start reloading, you still prefer to just shoot minor because it’s easier to load, easier to shoot, and you can shoot the same ammo in all your 9mm pistols and PCCs without any worry. 

I've been debating in my head what to buy for my next gun & struggling with the Major/Minor thing. Accepting that I'll never be a serious competitor & am doing it for fun has allowed me to realize shooting Minor isn't a big deal. I'm currently D class in Limited. Shooting Major wouldn't make the difference in winning a match...

Edited June 30, 2022 by moose97

[Balakay]

20 minutes ago, moose97 said:

I've been debating in my head what to buy for my next gun & struggling with the Major/Minor thing. Accepting that I'll never be a serious competitor & am doing it for fun has allowed me to realize shooting Minor isn't a big deal. I'm currently D class in Limited. Shooting Major wouldn't make the difference in winning a match...

With few exceptions, none of us are ever going to win an area match or even a sectional. Most of us will top out with class or category "wins".  Conversely, many of us want to improve.  That is why we train.  Standing in a rock pit for 5 hours for 3 minutes of shooting isn't that exciting to me..  It is the process of attempting mastery of a difficult skill that drives the competitors.

 

If  you have decided that you are content being a poor USPSA shooter at the bottom of your division (nothing wrong with this btw), buy a pallet of the cheapest remanufactured crap ammo that you can find and don't even bother reloading. Because reloading really is not fun and will not make any difference for you at this point

[Cuz]

Plus there’s the fact that an Open minor gun will pretty much run forever with very little maintenance. The same can not be said for an Open major pistol. It’s not really a problem, you just have to understand that there is an increased level of maintenance involved in keeping the gun running. If you’re shooting Open major for the points advantage, the last thing you want is to start losing time in a match due to gun issues. Your gun pretty much needs to run flawlessly. 

[Cuz]

2 minutes ago, Balakay said:

With few exceptions, none of us are ever going to win an area match or even a sectional. Most of us will top out with class or category "wins".  Conversely, many of us want to improve.  That is why we train.  Standing in a rock pit for 5 hours for 3 minutes of shooting isn't that exciting to me..  It is the process of attempting mastery of a difficult skill that drives the competitors.

 

If  you have decided that you are content being a poor USPSA shooter at the bottom of your division (nothing wrong with this btw), buy a pallet of the cheapest remanufactured crap ammo that you can find and don't even bother reloading. Because reloading really is not fun and will not make any difference for you at this point

I’m not sure I totally agree, but I understand what you’re saying. 
 

But, for someone starting out, there’s no reason they cant start with an open minor gun and run it for a year or 2 developing the skills they need, while not having to worry too much about the gun, or reloading, etc. plus, during that time they will learn what they really want in an open gun. What caliber to choose, etc. 

I think something like a Checkmate can be a sound investment to get yourself up and running in Open. 

[zzt]

I don't know where this 'old wives tale' about Open major guns needing more maintenance than minor guns comes from.   It is simply not true if the guns are set up correctly.  Across my last five Open major guns, the only things that broke were a Dawson tool less guide rod and their reverse plug.  I immediately replaced all the Dawson guide rods and plugs with EGW and Cheely and had no more problems.

 

With my current backup Open gun I shoot major with a 10 lb. recoil spring and minor with a 6 lb. variable.  If I were to shoot major with the 6 lb. I'd probably break something eventually.  It would probably be the dot.

[moose97]

26 minutes ago, Balakay said:

With few exceptions, none of us are ever going to win an area match or even a sectional. Most of us will top out with class or category "wins".  Conversely, many of us want to improve.  That is why we train.  Standing in a rock pit for 5 hours for 3 minutes of shooting isn't that exciting to me..  It is the process of attempting mastery of a difficult skill that drives the competitors.

 

If  you have decided that you are content being a poor USPSA shooter at the bottom of your division (nothing wrong with this btw), buy a pallet of the cheapest remanufactured crap ammo that you can find and don't even bother reloading. Because reloading really is not fun and will not make any difference for you at this point

I mean, wow. Nowhere did I say I was content to suck. Just that I'd rather not stress over Major/Minor if it's not going to be that big of a deal in getting wins or not. I'm still dry firing and practicing with the intention of improving. 

[Balakay]

3 minutes ago, moose97 said:

 I'd rather not stress over Major/Minor

Seriously, is this REALLY a stress for you?

 

What exactly stresses you?  Powder spillage while loading, more wear and tear on the gun, more recoil?

 

Almost everyone I know who shoots open, started with a major load and has never wished they shot minor.

 

 

[moose97]

1 hour ago, Balakay said:

What exactly stresses you? 

That Major ammo is WAY less commercially available in a time when ALL ammo is more difficult to find & expensive? Hence my comments on reloading. 

Edited June 30, 2022 by moose97

[Balakay]

6 minutes ago, moose97 said:

That Major ammo is WAY less commercially available in a time when ALL ammo is more difficult to find & expensive? Hence my comments on reloading. 

Brass costs the same, bullet costs the same, primer costs the same.

 

Reloading cost of major vs minor is due to needing more powder.  The typical $30 per pound of powder amounts to less than half a cent per grain.  

 

I think you want validation that shooting open minor is a fantastic idea.  It isn't. 

 

But if it works for you, who cares what a bunch of keyboard warriors like me have to say. You do you.

[moose97]

4 minutes ago, Balakay said:

Brass costs the same, bullet costs the same, primer costs the same.

 

Reloading cost of major vs minor is due to needing more powder.  The typical $30 per pound of powder amounts to less than half a cent per grain.  

 

I think you want validation that shooting open minor is a fantastic idea.  It isn't. 

 

But if it works for you, who cares what a bunch of keyboard warriors like me have to say. You do you.

I said commercially available. I.e., factory ammo. Factory 9mm Major. Factory .38 Super Comp. Obviously reloading mitigates the cost difference. Have you tried buying a whole new reloading setup lately? It's borderline unobtainium. 

[Balakay]

6 minutes ago, moose97 said:

I said commercially available. I.e., factory ammo. Factory 9mm Major. Factory .38 Super Comp. Obviously reloading mitigates the cost difference. Have you tried buying a whole new reloading setup lately? It's borderline unobtainium. 

3 second search

 

https://www.doublealpha.biz/us/dillon-rl550b-machine-with-daa-550-mini-case-feeder

 

Can have a 750 by July 15

[moose97]

31 minutes ago, Balakay said:

3 second search

 

https://www.doublealpha.biz/us/dillon-rl550b-machine-with-daa-550-mini-case-feeder

 

Can have a 750 by July 15

Last I looked, which was admittedly a couple months ago, everything was backorderd. I'll definitely look into it again. 

[GigG]

3 hours ago, moose97 said:

Last I looked, which was admittedly a couple months ago, everything was backorderd. I'll definitely look into it again. 

[erwos]

On 6/30/2022 at 12:08 PM, moose97 said:

I said commercially available. I.e., factory ammo. Factory 9mm Major. Factory .38 Super Comp. Obviously reloading mitigates the cost difference. Have you tried buying a whole new reloading setup lately? It's borderline unobtainium. 

If you're already loading 9mm, the cost for 9 Major is basically a new toolhead, powder measure, and die set. If you're running a 1050/1100/Evo/Apex, that's real money, but it's reasonably affordable on a 650/750 ($200-$250). 9 Major rounds are a little more expensive to load, but they're not exorbitant... like 10.5c per JHP, 3c per case, 8.5c per primer, and 4.5c for the powder? 26cpr. Still cheaper than new brass ammo, and not even terribly worse than regular 9mm these days.

 

I did some of the math when I was deciding whether I was going to explore open at all, and decided it was doable. Keep in mind the same gun can also run my regular 9mm pretty reliably, so if I'm feeling like like switching it up, it's not a big deal.

[moose97]

41 minutes ago, erwos said:

If you're already loading 9mm, the cost for 9 Major is basically a new toolhead, powder measure, and die set. If you're running a 1050/1100/Evo/Apex, that's real money, but it's reasonably affordable on a 650/750 ($200-$250). 9 Major rounds are a little more expensive to load, but they're not exorbitant... like 10.5c per JHP, 3c per case, 8.5c per primer, and 4.5c for the powder? 26cpr. Still cheaper than new brass ammo, and not even terribly worse than regular 9mm these days.

 

I did some of the math when I was deciding whether I was going to explore open at all, and decided it was doable. Keep in mind the same gun can also run my regular 9mm pretty reliably, so if I'm feeling like like switching it up, it's not a big deal.

Welp, this sort of resolved itself. My father-in-law got me an early Christmas present of a CZ TSO in .40, so will be staying in Limited for a while. 

[shred]

Having an open gun that will run factory minor ammo is cool for when you're being lazy, can't get primers, airlines seized your ammo, shooting steel challenge or are just practicing or whatever.

 

But you'll miss out on the stability and immediacy of shooting Major PF loads in a good Open gun.  That, IME (G Open, M CO, FWIW) is the largest difference between shooting a Open gun and shooting a CO pistol.  Stage tactics also change due to Major but that's a separate topic.

 

Open guns do wear out sooner with Major than Minor.  No way around it, but it's a negligible cost compared to the ammo that it will take to do that.

 

[zzt]

18 hours ago, shred said:

Having an open gun that will run factory minor ammo is cool for when you're being lazy, can't get primers, airlines seized your ammo, shooting steel challenge or are just practicing or whatever.

 

Took me three Open guns to get that right.  Now I shoot major for USPSA, minor for SCSA and Blazer 115 for club shoots out of the same gun with just a change of recoil springs.  Same POI for all.  So now I buy Blazer when I can get them for 30 cents a round.  That let's me save precious primers for major.

 

Shred is correct about shooting factory through an Open gun.  My SCSA Open load is much flatter and softer than the Blazer.  He is also correct about being lazy.  It is much easier and quicker to grab two boxes of factory for a club shoot than it is to process brass and reload.

[RaylanGivens]

A lot of people down here shoot ELEY's major power factor loaded ammo.

[Racinready300ex]

6 hours ago, RaylanGivens said:

A lot of people down here shoot ELEY's major power factor loaded ammo.

 

I just bought 1k rounds of that to test out, I know a couple guys that run it. 

[mrvip27]

On 7/6/2022 at 11:11 PM, RaylanGivens said:

A lot of people down here shoot ELEY's major power factor loaded ammo.

do they only make it in 38 super comp? what about 9 major?

[RaylanGivens]

18 hours ago, mrvip27 said:

do they only make it in 38 super comp? what about 9 major?

 

I don't know...  I didn't see any on their web site...

 

They just came out with five different versions of 9mm minor...

 

https://www.eleyammunition.com/minor9_competition_pistol_pcc_rounds/

[RobW]

I've been shooting the Eley all year since moving to Open. 38SC only, makes major in my gun (no popple holes).

 

The price has increased of late but when I stocked up it was $410, then $450 per case delivered. At the time not really that much more than factory 9mm.

[zzt]

I don't see the point of buying Eley minor 9 ammo at those prices.  I can buy all the factory 9mm I want for 15 to 16 cents per round.

[RJH]

53 minutes ago, zzt said:

I don't see the point of buying Eley minor 9 ammo at those prices.  I can buy all the factory 9mm I want for 15 to 16 cents per round.

 

Where are you getting factory 9 mm for 15-16 dollars a hundred?

[Racinready300ex]

1 hour ago, zzt said:

I don't see the point of buying Eley minor 9 ammo at those prices.  I can buy all the factory 9mm I want for 15 to 16 cents per round.

 

Like @RJH I'd like to get in on this $8 a box factory ammo. Primers are about 11 cents bullets are 7. With out powder or time invested that's a better deal.