Sight Picture (Rules) Question

[RickT]

Running a holstered gun the rules specifically allow taking a "sight picture" prior to a string.  How far does this allowance extend?  For example, is a competitor allowed to reholster and draw to take a practice draw on the first target between strings?  Not something I would do, but I've had a shooter on my squad who requested permission of the RO to do so.

[bigdawgbeav]

8.3.1.2 Sight Pictures: The competitor will have a maximum of one
minute after the Make Ready command to prepare for the run.
Sight pictures may be taken during the Make Ready process and
while preparing for the next string. Note: Should the competitor
experience an accidental discharge while taking a sight picture a
disqualification under rule 10.4.1 shall be issued. 

 

Yes, you can take sight pictures between strings, but very few do (from a holstered start).  The main time I have seen it is moving to the 2nd box on Showdown.  Excessive drawing from the holster between strings just slows things down and probably will get some folks annoyed.  Plus greater chance for something to go wrong.  However, most folks that are shooting from the low-ready will take a quick sight pictures between strings.  

Edited June 14, 2022 by bigdawgbeav

[RickT]

This instance of a sight picture draw before each string is unique in my experience, but as you indicate it is allowed with a reasonable interpretation of the rule.  Also annoying.

[Johnny_Chimpo]

What is even the point of sight pictures?  Is that a holdover from the early days of open when red dots were borderline junk that broke for no reason and with battery life of a couple of hours?

 

If you need draw practice right before a string...............it's too late.

[Boomstick303]

The rules are clear in what is allowed.  

 

If a shooter needs to take one or not is completely up to the individual for whatever reason.

 

What should be happening is the individual needs to create a make ready routine which creates a condition they are completely ready for the course of fire in regards to equipment, and their mental state to be successful.  Stick to that routine and do it every time.  An individuals make ready routine can change over time to fix issues a shooter may run into that could have been avoided if they "made ready" properly.  Something I changed in my make routine was to sweep and gun with an optic from left to right in the bay to ensure the dot brightness setting was correct after I had a dot wash out during a course of fire due to the sun.   My current make ready makes sure that does not ever happen again.  

 

Some use their make to practice their draw and/or reload but most do not do this in case they flub the draw and/or the reload which could lead to negative thoughts right before they shoot, possibly leading to distraction and mistakes.  Something to consider.

 

It seems that the most successful shooters have a dedicated routine the stick to during their make ready.  Probably something to think about.  

[hornetx40]

The rule was changed a few years ago down to one minute, because some would take way to long to make ready. It is allowed under the rules so be annoyed if you want. The shooter has that right just as each shooter does. 

[EarlKeese]

At WSSC, I heard several RO's grumbling about SC people and their stupid make ready routines and how long they took. To be fair, it was Sunday afternoon, it was hot, and I'm sure they were tired. Also pretty sure they weren't SC shooters. 

[bigdawgbeav]

11 hours ago, hornetx40 said:

The rule was changed a few years ago down to one minute, because some would take way to long to make ready. It is allowed under the rules so be annoyed if you want. The shooter has that right just as each shooter does. 

But the OP asked about in-between strings.  It is allowed, but not often seen with centerfire shooters practicing their draw and sight picture between strings, unless they have moved to the 2nd box on Showdown.  The 1 minute after Make Ready is fine and no one is disputing that.

[bigdawgbeav]

10 hours ago, EarlKeese said:

At WSSC, I heard several RO's grumbling about SC people and their stupid make ready routines and how long they took. To be fair, it was Sunday afternoon, it was hot, and I'm sure they were tired. Also pretty sure they weren't SC shooters. 

Grumble or not, the shooter has 1 minute.  If they were routinely seeing shooters going over that then they should have penalized.  With 3+ ROs on a stage, I was kind of surprised I didn't see any stopwatches timing the make ready.

[ZackJones]

16 hours ago, EarlKeese said:

At WSSC, I heard several RO's grumbling about SC people and their stupid make ready routines and how long they took. To be fair, it was Sunday afternoon, it was hot, and I'm sure they were tired. Also pretty sure they weren't SC shooters. 

That would be correct. There were no SS squads Sunday afternoon the centerfire SS shot Sunday morning. I can't stand when when a computer shooting from low ready does 10-15 swings to the first plate. It's annoying to watch as a computer and even more more annoying as the RO running the timer. You never seem to when when they are going to finally settle down. I once told a competitor after their run that they didn't need to do that because it's mot like the first plate was going to move or anything. 

 

Edit - I read "SC" as SS meaning super squad and not Steel Challenge my bad on that. Still don't like it if you do the 10-15 swings to the first plate. 

 

Edited June 15, 2022 by ZackJones

[hornetx40]

On 6/15/2022 at 1:35 PM, ZackJones said:

That would be correct. There were no SS squads Sunday afternoon the centerfire SS shot Sunday morning. I can't stand when when a computer shooting from low ready does 10-15 swings to the first plate. It's annoying to watch as a computer and even more more annoying as the RO running the timer. You never seem to when when they are going to finally settle down. I once told a competitor after their run that they didn't need to do that because it's mot like the first plate was going to move or anything. 

 

Edit - I read "SC" as SS meaning super squad and not Steel Challenge my bad on that. Still don't like it if you do the 10-15 swings to the first plate. 

 

 If the shooter is following the rules, what is it that you can't stand. If the shooter takes 100 swings at the first plate inside of the time limit who cares. Why is it that RO's are bothered by people doing things in a different manner. An RO is not their to judge the shooter on style, just on safety and score. The RO is there to serve the shooters and the match not the other way around.

[EarlKeese]

1 hour ago, hornetx40 said:

 If the shooter is following the rules, what is it that you can't stand. If the shooter takes 100 swings at the first plate inside of the time limit who cares. Why is it that RO's are bothered by people doing things in a different manner. An RO is not their to judge the shooter on style, just on safety and score. The RO is there to serve the shooters and the match not the other way around.

I think the challenge is knowing when they're actually ready.  

[zzt]

7 minutes ago, EarlKeese said:

I think the challenge is knowing when they're actually ready.  

 

Exactly.

[Johnny_Chimpo]

3 hours ago, EarlKeese said:

I think the challenge is knowing when they're actually ready.  

 

How about...........when they stop moving?

 

Or when they run out the clock.

[EarlKeese]

34 minutes ago, Johnny_Chimpo said:

 

How about...........when they stop moving?

 

Or when they run out the clock.

Do you mean right before they take another sight picture? Sometimes they settle, only to move again right when you ask if they're ready. Centerfire is easy because they raise their hands, low ready classes not so much with some shooters. 

[Johnny_Chimpo]

10 hours ago, EarlKeese said:

Do you mean right before they take another sight picture? Sometimes they settle, only to move again right when you ask if they're ready. Centerfire is easy because they raise their hands, low ready classes not so much with some shooters. 

 

This isn't that hard.  Ask "are you ready" when they are immobile for more than a few seconds.  If they move again or signal they're not, wash, rinse, repeat until they run out the clock.

Edited June 18, 2022 by Johnny_Chimpo

[egd5]

Just curiosity, but are the ones who are worst at all the repeated draws, etc., etc. the ones who only think they're fast and wouldn't make the top 20 anyway?

That'd be my guess.

[ZackJones]

On 6/17/2022 at 5:46 PM, hornetx40 said:

 If the shooter is following the rules, what is it that you can't stand. If the shooter takes 100 swings at the first plate inside of the time limit who cares. Why is it that RO's are bothered by people doing things in a different manner. An RO is not their to judge the shooter on style, just on safety and score. The RO is there to serve the shooters and the match not the other way around.

 

We all have our pet peeves. This one is mine. 

[Cuz]

When the one minute clock expires, do you issue a procedural for taking too long?  What penalty is that?  Do you issue a warning at the 50 second mark to let them know they are running out of time?

if they do get a penalty for exceeding the time limit to Make Ready. Do they get restarted with another make ready command and therefore get another full minute to get ready?

 

Just curious how this would all play out in a real match?  I’ve never been to a big match, but at our small local ones, I’d guess I would just tell the shooter to hurry his ass up the next time I tell him to make ready or there will be a penalty. But, it’s never happened as I normally give them as much time as they need and never felt like a shooter was taking “too long”. 

[STELLARTONE]

Sorry In advaced if anyone here ever squads with me.  LoL

 

If it works, it isn't silly right?

Edited August 11, 2022 by STELLARTONE

[STELLARTONE]

On 6/19/2022 at 3:37 PM, egd5 said:

Just curiosity, but are the ones who are worst at all the repeated draws, etc., etc. the ones who only think they're fast and wouldn't make the top 20 anyway?

That'd be my guess.

LoL this made me chuckle a bit. 

 

Nope. They could be anyone I guess.

[GigG]

On 6/14/2022 at 5:41 PM, Johnny_Chimpo said:

Is that a holdover from the early days of open when red dots were borderline junk that broke for no reason and with battery life of a couple of hours?

 

LOL, there was a before time when there were no dots.

 

P.S. I never had a ProPoint fail.

[zzt]

On 6/19/2022 at 3:37 PM, egd5 said:

Just curiosity, but are the ones who are worst at all the repeated draws, etc., etc. the ones who only think they're fast and wouldn't make the top 20 anyway?

That'd be my guess.

 

Top 20 my eye.  They are usually D or U.

 

If a shooter is taking too long, I hurry them.  Yes, they get a minute per the rules, but it is rude.  You do your dry fire practice at home.  If everyone took the full minute, that adds 15 minutes per 15 man squad.  After six stages a whopping 90 minutes is added to the match.  That is just unacceptable.

 

Another thing that bugs me is what two of my newbie friends do.  Multiple draws and sight picture.  Then they are still for 5 seconds.  So I start are you ready and they decide to take another sight picture.  Give me a break.

[Dirty_J]

28 minutes ago, zzt said:

 

Top 20 my eye.  They are usually D or U.

 

If a shooter is taking too long, I hurry them.  Yes, they get a minute per the rules, but it is rude.  You do your dry fire practice at home.  If everyone took the full minute, that adds 15 minutes per 15 man squad.  After six stages a whopping 90 minutes is added to the match.  That is just unacceptable.

 

Another thing that bugs me is what two of my newbie friends do.  Multiple draws and sight picture.  Then they are still for 5 seconds.  So I start are you ready and they decide to take another sight picture.  Give me a break.

You must be super fun at parties. 

[outerlimits]

On 8/11/2022 at 12:54 PM, GigG said:

 

LOL, there was a before time when there were no dots.

 

P.S. I never had a ProPoint fail.

pdp 2's were tanks, but the tube was too small.  pdp3's had 30mm tubes that were thin and depending on the mount, broke all the time.  back then, noel alfaro would make replacement tubes that were thicker and were 35mm.  still have one.

 

and before that, we all walked around with black splotches on our shirts-sight black, baby!  and before sight black, we used carbide lighters for sight black.  

 

ok, now i am dating myself.