Random Light Strikes(maybe)/Fail to Fire Questions

[DDave]

I am using a 929 with an apex extended FP, TK clips and factory mainspring, I am getting random light strikes/fail to fires, about 3% of rounds fired by my math, and I cannot figure out why and am looking for anything anyone may be able to think of in regards to this. I have tried multiple kinds of ammo, primers and spring tension. Zero issues on loading/unloading the cylinder and my 929 has been extremely accurate as well. 

 

In the picture the top rounds are failures and the bottom are fired casings from moonclips they came off of. 

[Toolguy]

If the gun has been shot a lot, the firing pin tunnel may have carbon buildup which is preventing consistent transfer of the hammer strike to the primer. This may not be the problem, but it's a good idea to clean this out on revolver or semi auto occasionally. It looks like the non fired primers had a fairly good strike, indicating some type of borderline case where some fire and some don't. There is probably something absorbing part of the hammer blow, preventing a full strength strike. 

 

You might also check to make sure that the bottom of the hammer isn't contacting the rebound slide when it's all the way down. This can happen sometimes if you add a trigger stop and the trigger doesn't go as far back as it originally did. Look for anything that would slow down or buffer the hammer strike.

[Farmer]

Primers seated fully and solid? Does it happen with all moon clips or just a couple? Do they fire when struck again? Possible primer contamination? Those look like they should have worked, so I was wondering if there was some “spring” in your clips or not seated firm enough. 

[DDave]

The revolver came with dual trigger stops, one in the rebound slide and one on the trigger shoe itself, I removed the one in the rebound slide and now notice that the one on the trigger shoe is galling the rear of the trigger guard so I am going to take a few swipes at it with a file. There is no contact on the rebound slide and hammer and release/firing position. I am going to clean out the FP channel, didn't think of that and then head off to the range in a few. 

 

I haven't thought to check/mark moonclips to see if they are not perfectly flat, I going to do that and see if there are some problem ones. I tried to order a cylinder checker from revovlersupply but the order sat unfulfilled for 3 weeks before I had to do a chargeback and get it canceled, he wouldn't return my emails. 

 

[Fishbreath]

28 minutes ago, DDave said:

I tried to order a cylinder checker from revovlersupply but the order sat unfulfilled for 3 weeks before I had to do a chargeback and get it canceled, he wouldn't return my emails. 

 

I had similar experiences with email, but no trouble getting him on the phone.

[GMM50]

Lots of area that could cause this problem.

I would remove all the trigger stops to eliminate them from causing the problem.

Put in stock springs and firing pin (and it's return spring if you have it) to bring everything back to or close to stock.

Try to get the gun to function flawlessly.  Then substitute to see if problem returns.

 

Check the hammer for signs that it is rubbing against the frame on either side.  Smooth that out.

 

If each item takes 10% of hammer energy away and over 30% will cause a misfire, then several items are building to the failure.

It is probably more than one item.

 

If you're competing, you will want spare parts such as springs and firing pins, so buy them now for your testing.

 

Also check moon clips for flatness against a flat surface.

 

[GMM50]

Moon Clip checkers are in stock.  Moon CLips are not.

[MWP]

Do the rounds go off the second time you fire them? 

[DDave]

thanks @GMM50ill check the hammer components and yes I compete with it which is the main reason for me really caring about it being at 100%. 

 

Where is a solid moonclip checker in stock? I dont really want to try revovlersupply again after the last issue.

 

And for those asking, I did take a glock out with me and got them to fire on the second go around

[Fishbreath]

5 minutes ago, DDave said:

And for those asking, I did take a glock out with me and got them to fire on the second go around

 

It's better to hit them again with the same gun, from the perspective of diagnosis. My troubleshooting process in practice goes like this:

 

1. Does it go off if I hit it again in double action 1-2 times? If yes, insufficient primer seating.

2. If no, does it go off if I hit it in single action 1-2 times? If yes, DA hammer/firing pin energy is too low. (Either too little spring, or it's losing energy somewhere in the hammer fall.)

3. If no, faulty primer.

[mchapman]

53 minutes ago, DDave said:

thanks @GMM50ill check the hammer components and yes I compete with it which is the main reason for me really caring about it being at 100%. 

 

Where is a solid moonclip checker in stock? I dont really want to try revovlersupply again after the last issue.

 

And for those asking, I did take a glock out with me and got them to fire on the second go around

I guess that you are going to look elsewhere for a moonclip checker then as, GMM50, that answered you is revolver supply.

[DDave]

3 minutes ago, mchapman said:

I guess that you are going to look elsewhere for a moonclip checker then as, GMM50, that answered you is revolver supply.

Odd unhelpful comment thanks for the contribution @mchapman. If you actually read GMM50's comment it doesn't actually say where he states they are in stock.

[DDave]

57 minutes ago, Fishbreath said:

 

It's better to hit them again with the same gun, from the perspective of diagnosis. My troubleshooting process in practice goes like this:

 

1. Does it go off if I hit it again in double action 1-2 times? If yes, insufficient primer seating.

2. If no, does it go off if I hit it in single action 1-2 times? If yes, DA hammer/firing pin energy is too low. (Either too little spring, or it's losing energy somewhere in the hammer fall.)

3. If no, faulty primer.

 I thought it might be primer seating, but with the very inconsistent issue, on multiple primers and they do not ignite on attempts afterwards but did with a glock. I am going to take it apart tonight and check for any where/friction on the internals tonight. 

Edited June 9, 2022 by DDave

[DDave]

Inspecting and cleaning up some parts and now I see part of the hammer (apex) has a little lopsided wear on it from the rear of the trigger

 

Edited June 9, 2022 by DDave

[mchapman]

6 hours ago, GMM50 said:

Moon Clip checkers are in stock.  Moon CLips are not.

 

4 hours ago, DDave said:

Odd unhelpful comment thanks for the contribution @mchapman. If you actually read GMM50's comment it doesn't actually say where he states they are in stock.

Sorry we must be looking at two different things, oh well have a nice day.

[Farmer]

Don’t think I’ve seen one perfectly even on any gun, although that’s pretty lopsided. That really shouldn’t have any effect on primer strikes, just trigger pull. 

[Badkarma]

Are there rub mark on the side of the hammer?  Does your hammer have side to side play? Poor hammer alignment could cause inconsistent hammer fall.  With almost every 929 I've worked with... shims were necessary to center the hammer and avoid rubbing on the frame.  Just my experiences... just trying to help.

 

Case checkers???  Try here:  https://www.speedbeez.com/product/speed-beez-moon-clip-tool-38-super-8-shot/

 

 

[pskys2]

I found the TK Hammer on my PC was rubbing on the Trigger, but not at the SA Sear, when the trigger was kept depressed and I'd run the hammer with no main spring through its full arc.  Found it had a hitch just as the hammer reached the FP, a few strokes of a stone on the trigger freed it up.

 

 

[DDave]

2 hours ago, pskys2 said:

I found the TK Hammer on my PC was rubbing on the Trigger, but not at the SA Sear, when the trigger was kept depressed and I'd run the hammer with no main spring through its full arc.  Found it had a hitch just as the hammer reached the FP, a few strokes of a stone on the trigger freed it up.

awesome thanks I will check that out

 

16 hours ago, Badkarma said:

Are there rub mark on the side of the hammer?  Does your hammer have side to side play? Poor hammer alignment could cause inconsistent hammer fall.  With almost every 929 I've worked with... shims were necessary to center the hammer and avoid rubbing on the frame.  Just my experiences... just trying to help.

I haven't checked side to side play but did not see any obvious wear marks on the hammer besides the above mentioned, what material did you use to shim? brass?

[ysrracer]

I'm not a gunsmith, but on my 929 I couldn't get ANY factory ammo to fire reliably, even Federal. What finally cured my problem was reloading Federal brass with Federal Small Pistol Primers, and .035 TK moon clips.

 

Your millage may vary.

[Badkarma]

On 6/10/2022 at 3:09 PM, DDave said:

I haven't checked side to side play but did not see any obvious wear marks on the hammer besides the above mentioned, what material did you use to shim? brass?

 

https://www.triggershims.com/sw_k_l_n_frame.php#ST1

[revoman]

Why not just buy Toolguy’s Rev Up Action and be done with this or send it to a real gunsmith such as TK Custom, Pinnacle Custom or some of the others who are mentioned on this forum. 
Nice thing about having expert’s work on your gun it is usually guaranteed to work. Also try going back to factory firing pin. 
Just saying 

✌

[GMM50]

You could have one problem that is causing the issue.  Fix it and you're good to go.  Or you could have several issues, each contributing to the problem.  You will then need to fix most (if not all) of them to fix the issue.  Just a real world situation. 

If it were me, I would love to jump into this problem set.  You may not have that same personality. 

I would start fixing issues one at a time, not thinking any one of them is going to fix the problem.   Swapping parts that you will need to buy anyway is probably a good plan.  Adding new parts will get expensive.

[ysrracer]

OP, are you using factory ammo?

[gargoil66]

DD:

 

Could be your picture but it sure looks like two types of primers.  Ones that are gold in color and the others silver.

 

I know -- it did it with both but what primers did you use here?

 

May be as simple as using Fed 100's.

 

GG

Edited June 12, 2022 by gargoil66