Hearing protection for SC

[Squirrel45]

Hi guy's, 

 

What's the best hearing protection for SC? A guy at a match today told me about walker xcel's that have the ability to amplify sound quickly ie steel strikes. Are these any different then any other electronic muff? 

 

Thanks 

Squirrel

[JM_]

Don't get Xcel's, the suppression tech they use is annoying because you lose all hearing during gunfire. I run AKT1's and have had zero issues with them and they do a good job of amplifying the sound of steel.

[mrvip27]

On 6/5/2022 at 1:58 PM, Squirrel45 said:

Hi guy's, 

 

What's the best hearing protection for SC? A guy at a match today told me about walker xcel's that have the ability to amplify sound quickly ie steel strikes. Are these any different then any other electronic muff? 

 

Thanks 

Squirrel

 

Make sure you get something that has compression not clipping.

[rowdyb]

Shoot by sight, not sound.

[JM_]

19 minutes ago, rowdyb said:

Shoot by sight, not sound.

This is incorrect on so many levels. Obviously the best way is to call your shots as you pull the trigger. But using sound to recall any missed shots is the only way to confirm hits if you are unsure. And this is coming from someone who competes at the highest level of Steel Challenge.

[rowdyb]

I was being snarky. 9th overall in Prod at us steel nats and 3rd overall in Prod at A4 steel. (And top 10 centerfire overall). [So not just a local bum either]

[SIGcurious]

I like the MSA Sordin Supreme Pro-X.  Not sure what technology they use, but they work for me.

[Cnickolas]

4 hours ago, SIGcurious said:

I like the MSA Sordin Supreme Pro-X.  Not sure what technology they use, but they work for me.

I second this…my understanding which could be incorrect, is that the Sordin’s only lowers the sound to hearing safe levels. It does not “turn off” the noise like most other brands. 
 

Helps with situational awareness. 
 

I also wear them during precision rifle shooting and my walkers would turn off the sound which made it difficult to hear longer distance shots with lighter calibers. 

[SIGcurious]

And if you pick the Sordins, get some gel ear pads for them. Super comfy.

[tiro6]

Also recommend the Sordins with gel pads.

 

A little bit pricey compared to Walkers/Leights, but there's ways to use HSA/FSA to pay for em.

[Darqusoull13]

On 8/11/2022 at 2:25 PM, JM_ said:

This is incorrect on so many levels. Obviously the best way is to call your shots as you pull the trigger. But using sound to recall any missed shots is the only way to confirm hits if you are unsure. And this is coming from someone who competes at the highest level of Steel Challenge.

Rowdy was correct. Calling your shot at the sight picture is the fastest way. Waiting to use sound in any capacity to confirm hits is far too slow. Imagine waiting for a 100 grainer to get all the way out to 25 yards travelling at 800 fps! And if you pop the stop plate with a primer only hit you'll never hear it! 

 

On 6/5/2022 at 3:58 PM, Squirrel45 said:

Hi guy's, 

 

What's the best hearing protection for SC? A guy at a match today told me about walker xcel's that have the ability to amplify sound quickly ie steel strikes. Are these any different then any other electronic muff? 

 

Thanks 

Squirrel

Squirrel, in light of what I wrote above I would make the strong recommendation you look for ear pro based on comfort and noise reduction. I always double plug with both inner foamies and over the ear muffs. MSA Sordins with the gel cups are the most comfortable. I have found that I tend to be able to wear them much longer on hotter days. 

You can get well into the depths of noise reduction and even target the frequencies we experience during shooting. Companies like Sound Gear can make you custom molded plugs with various levels of sound amplification. 

Again, I would strongly recommend you prioritize improving your Steel Challenge ability to call hits based on visual cues and focus your search for hearing protection on comfort. 

[JM_]

4 hours ago, Darqusoull13 said:

Rowdy was correct. Calling your shot at the sight picture is the fastest way. Waiting to use sound in any capacity to confirm hits is far too slow. Imagine waiting for a 100 grainer to get all the way out to 25 yards travelling at 800 fps! And if you pop the stop plate with a primer only hit you'll never hear it! 

That's why I said calling shots is how you need to shoot to run fast, but how do you tell if you miss a plate? You can't look at the plate and count the shots. Using the ring of the plate to mentally confirm that you've hit it while simultaneously shooting all the other plates is the most effective way. I couldn't have reached rank 2 without using the sound of the hits. And calling shots only gets you so far.

[Darqusoull13]

13 hours ago, JM_ said:

That's why I said calling shots is how you need to shoot to run fast, but how do you tell if you miss a plate? You can't look at the plate and count the shots. Using the ring of the plate to mentally confirm that you've hit it while simultaneously shooting all the other plates is the most effective way. I couldn't have reached rank 2 without using the sound of the hits. And calling shots only gets you so far.

You either call it good and move on or you immediate call it a miss and make it up. Sound is objectively too slow. You are holding yourself back relying on it as a crutch. 

[JM_]

1 hour ago, Darqusoull13 said:

You either call it good and move on or you immediate call it a miss and make it up. Sound is objectively too slow. You are holding yourself back relying on it as a crutch. 

I guess we agree to disagree, and I think my scores validate that I'm not being held back in any manner.

Edited October 11, 2022 by JM_

[Boomstick303]

12 minutes ago, JM_ said:

You're putting a lot of words in my mouth, and I think my scores validate that I'm not being held back in any manner.

 

Your scores may be fine to you but that does not take away from the fact calling your shot is correct just as @rowdybindicated.  Waiting for a ding of steel to move onto the next target is NOT correct.  Its like looking for holes in paper targets.  Maybe subconsciously you can determine that you missed steel by sound after moving onto the next target, to go back and make that shot up which may be why your scores are fine.  Are you sure that is not what is going on?  In any case it does not make what Rowdy said is "incorrect on so many levels".   Any good instructor would tell you the same thing.  

 

But telling people that.....

 

On 8/11/2022 at 1:25 PM, JM_ said:

This is incorrect on so many levels.

 

Is itself "incorrect on so many levels".

 

If you think you are right you can figure this out on your own in practice.   Shoot a string waiting for the sound to register for each piece of steel before you move onto the next target.  I imagine your times would  be considerably slower, than your match times.

Edited October 11, 2022 by Boomstick303

[dtuns]

21 hours ago, tiro6 said:

Also recommend the Sordins with gel pads.

 

A little bit pricey compared to Walkers/Leights, but there's ways to use HSA/FSA to pay for em.

How do you purchase with FSA card?

[JM_]

2 hours ago, Boomstick303 said:

 

Your scores may be fine to you but that does not take away from the fact calling your shot is correct just as @rowdybindicated.  Waiting for a ding of steel to move onto the next target is NOT correct.  Its like looking for holes in paper targets.  Maybe subconsciously you can determine that you missed steel by sound after moving onto the next target, to go back and make that shot up which may be why your scores are fine.  Are you sure that is not what is going on?  In any case it does not make what Rowdy said is "incorrect on so many levels".   Any good instructor would tell you the same thing.  

 

But telling people that.....

 

 

Is itself "incorrect on so many levels".

 

If you think you are right you can figure this out on your own in practice.   Shoot a string waiting for the sound to register for each piece of steel before you move onto the next target.  I imagine your times would  be considerably slower, than your match times.

Not sure why everyone is thinking I wait for the ring of the steel, I never said that. I am calling my shots and moving to the next target before the sound, but using the sound of the steel in the background to confirm hits.  Sound is an integral part of competing at the highest level of steel challenge and saying to only call shots is incorrect (on so many levels).

 

Incase I haven't made my self clear about my abilities when it comes to Steel Challenge: https://scsa.org/classification/FY121486

 

 

 

[Boomstick303]

14 minutes ago, JM_ said:

Not sure why everyone is thinking I wait for the ring of the steel,

 

Because you said this.

 

On 8/11/2022 at 1:25 PM, JM_ said:

This is incorrect on so many levels

 

He was correct.  Maybe if you didn't contradict yourself later in the same post for the statements above and only expanded on what Rowdy said as you did later in the post people would not have felt the need to say anything.

 

Another thing there are most likely a large number of SC shooters that use zero sound and use only visual cues to call make up shots.  While there might not be a huge number of people of people that have this ability I am sure they exist.  

 

Your process works amazing for you.  Some can call shots and do not need sound to shoot as well or possible better than you.  Believe it or not.

 

 

[JM_]

1 minute ago, Boomstick303 said:

 

Because you said this.

 

 

He was correct.  Maybe if you didn't contradict yourself later in the same post for the statements above and only expanded on what Rowdy said as you did later in the post people would not have felt the need to say anything.

 

Another thing there are most likely a large number of SC shooters that use zero sound and use only visual cues to call make up shots.  While there might not be a huge number of people of people that have this ability I am sure they exist.  

 

Your process works amazing for you.  Some can call shots and do not need sound to shoot as well or possible better than you.  Believe it or not.

 

 

I'll quote myself from the first comment I made "Obviously the best way is to call your shots as you pull the trigger."

[JM_]

1 minute ago, JM_ said:

I'll quote myself from the first comment I made "Obviously the best way is to call your shots as you pull the trigger."

And a quote from my second comment "That's why I said calling shots is how you need to shoot to run fast"

[Boomstick303]

You make it sound like the only way to shoot SC is your method, which requires visual cues and sound. 

 

Hence the Comment.......

 

On 8/11/2022 at 1:25 PM, JM_ said:

This is incorrect on so many levels.

 

This is not the case.

 

He was not wrong.  Just a different way to shoot SC.  Like I said expanding on what method works for you does not mean the way someone else shoots SC does not make them "incorrect on so many levels."   Just one level, or method per sea.  Your method. 

 

I guess You agree with Rowdy but not completely so that justifies telling him he is wrong on so many levels.  Many of us do not see it that way.  But you are entitled to your opinion just as the rest of us.   

 

[JM_]

4 minutes ago, Boomstick303 said:

You make it sound like the only way to shoot SC is your method, which requires visual cues and sound. 

 

Hence the Comment.......

 

 

This is not the case.

 

He was not wrong.  Just a different way to shoot SC.  Like I said expanding on what method works for you does not mean the way someone else shoots SC does not make them "incorrect on so many levels."   Just one level, or method per sea.  Your method. 

 

I guess You agree with Rowdy but not completely so that justifies telling him he is wrong on so many levels.  Many of us do not see it that way.  But you are entitled to your opinion just as the rest of us.   

 

Fair enough, Same goes for Rowdy where he says to only call shots, that's why I felt the need to respond. No reason not to use a perfectly good human sense.

[tiro6]

On 10/11/2022 at 12:41 PM, dtuns said:

How do you purchase with FSA card?

 

So it's a little bit tricky/complicated process, but there's a write up on Reddit below. I was able to use my FSA on Peltor Comtacs

 

[Sinister4]

On 10/11/2022 at 1:19 PM, JM_ said:

Fair enough, Same goes for Rowdy where he says to only call shots, that's why I felt the need to respond. No reason not to use a perfectly good human sense.

Very impressive qualification records!  That being said I also want to hear the ring when shooting rimfire steel, and for sure use both senses when shooting. With centerfire I have no issues but rimfire Yes I`d like a " louder " ear protection 

[GOF]

On 10/10/2022 at 8:14 PM, JM_ said:

That's why I said calling shots is how you need to shoot to run fast, but how do you tell if you miss a plate? You can't look at the plate and count the shots. Using the ring of the plate to mentally confirm that you've hit it while simultaneously shooting all the other plates is the most effective way. I couldn't have reached rank 2 without using the sound of the hits. And calling shots only gets you so far.

+1! The ears can hear & process faster than the eyes can see & process. It makes no sense to discount, or exclude, auditory input. It's a significant factor.

There're a number of moderately priced electronic earmuffs that work well for Steel Challenge. I've used Walker Razor, and some others. Safariland also makes some inexpensive in the ear plugs... can't remember the name... that don't use batteries. But, they work to hear the Ting quickly.

Why not use every tool you have?