DwayneL Posted May 28, 2022 Share Posted May 28, 2022 Hi, in a Level 1 match, one of the stage briefings stated the starting position in front of a barrel "gun unloaded on barrel, all magazines in the to be used in the CoF on barrel". What if, after the first shooter, the next shooter would put his magazines (not the gun though!) on the barrel while the crew was still patching the targets. The "make ready" signal by the range officer was not given. 8.3.1 mentions only readying of the firearm, not the magazines 8.7.2 mentions "no sighting aid" in the walkthrough 8.7.3 mentions no entering the CoF before prior permission Am I missing something here? Yes, I read through the rules several times and talked to people Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RadarTech Posted May 28, 2022 Share Posted May 28, 2022 This is common… no harm no foul….. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robertwil18 Posted May 28, 2022 Share Posted May 28, 2022 Was there a pressing issue that necessitated the question? What was the outcome of your question at the match itself? Did the RO/RM provide you information? Magazines can be handled at any time and at any location on a range prior, during, or after a COF with the exception of loaded magazines being handled within the safe area. If the individual placing their magazines was the next shooter and doing so while conducting their walkthrough prior to their run, there is no issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nathanb Posted May 29, 2022 Share Posted May 29, 2022 You can handle magazines before make ready. You cannot handle a firearm unless at a safe table. Pretty cut and dry imo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwards30 Posted May 29, 2022 Share Posted May 29, 2022 I don't really recall the circumstances but in my first year I also recall someone making a stink about placing the magazines before the make ready. I never made the effort to see if there is an actual rule not allowing it, I've always just asked the RO if I may. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny_Chimpo Posted May 29, 2022 Share Posted May 29, 2022 7 hours ago, Edwards30 said: I don't really recall the circumstances but in my first year I also recall someone making a stink about placing the magazines before the make ready. Someone who clearly doesn't know how things work Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfinney Posted May 29, 2022 Share Posted May 29, 2022 7 hours ago, Nathanb said: You can handle magazines before make ready. You cannot handle a firearm unless at a safe table. Pretty cut and dry imo What he said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny_Chimpo Posted May 29, 2022 Share Posted May 29, 2022 (edited) On 5/28/2022 at 11:54 AM, DwayneL said: Hi, in a Level 1 match, one of the stage briefings stated the starting position in front of a barrel "gun unloaded on barrel, all magazines in the to be used in the CoF on barrel". What if, after the first shooter, the next shooter would put his magazines (not the gun though!) on the barrel while the crew was still patching the targets. Magazines and ammunition can be handled at any time, and at any place that isn't the safe area. You don't need to be specifically allowed to pre-stage your ammo once the stage is available for you. Edited May 29, 2022 by Johnny_Chimpo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mountain09 Posted May 31, 2022 Share Posted May 31, 2022 You're not missing anything, All good ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bagellord Posted May 31, 2022 Share Posted May 31, 2022 On 5/29/2022 at 10:10 AM, Edwards30 said: I don't really recall the circumstances but in my first year I also recall someone making a stink about placing the magazines before the make ready. I never made the effort to see if there is an actual rule not allowing it, I've always just asked the RO if I may. Only way I could see there being a stink is if it somehow got in the way of stage reset. I have seen where someone placed their mags during reset, and the mags got grabbed because someone thought they belonged to the shooter being scored (thus needing to be cleared away). Luckily it was noticed and fixed prior to the next shooter starting. Brings up an interesting point - if a shooter stages their mags, and someone else grabs them by mistake, and the shooter gets to that position during the CoF and there are no mags to continue the stage, what happens? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GigG Posted May 31, 2022 Share Posted May 31, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, Bagellord said: Brings up an interesting point - if a shooter stages their mags, and someone else grabs them by mistake, and the shooter gets to that position during the CoF and there are no mags to continue the stage, what happens? 8.6.4 In the event that inadvertent contact from the Range Officer or another external influence has interfered with the competitor during a course of fire, the Range Officer may offer the competitor a reshoot of the course of fire. The competitor must accept or decline the offer prior to seeing either the time or the score from the initial attempt. However, in the event that the competitor commits a safety infraction during any such interference, the provisions of Section 10.3 may still apply. Edited May 31, 2022 by GigG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waktasz Posted May 31, 2022 Share Posted May 31, 2022 It's preferred you stage your mags when you are on deck intead of after make ready. Mag on barrel starts can cause delays if shooters dont do this, especially on large stages with the barrels far apart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robertwil18 Posted June 1, 2022 Share Posted June 1, 2022 11 hours ago, GigG said: 8.6.4 In the event that inadvertent contact from the Range Officer or another external influence has interfered with the competitor during a course of fire, the Range Officer may offer the competitor a reshoot of the course of fire. The competitor must accept or decline the offer prior to seeing either the time or the score from the initial attempt. However, in the event that the competitor commits a safety infraction during any such interference, the provisions of Section 10.3 may still apply. But the CoF does not begin until the Make Ready command, correct? If the competitor didnt realize the mags were missing prior to the beginning of the CoF it wouldn't really be interference with the competitot DURING the CoF, would it? Just from a purely technical standpoint?... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny_Chimpo Posted June 1, 2022 Share Posted June 1, 2022 7 hours ago, Robertwil18 said: But the CoF does not begin until the Make Ready command, correct? If the competitor didnt realize the mags were missing prior to the beginning of the CoF it wouldn't really be interference with the competitot DURING the CoF, would it? Just from a purely technical standpoint?... Not just from a purely technical standpoint, but from a practical standpoint too. No reshoot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GigG Posted June 1, 2022 Share Posted June 1, 2022 11 hours ago, Robertwil18 said: But the CoF does not begin until the Make Ready command, correct? If the competitor didnt realize the mags were missing prior to the beginning of the CoF it wouldn't really be interference with the competitot DURING the CoF, would it? Just from a purely technical standpoint?... I don't see how it would be any different than say, a popper that fell over before shooting or a target that wasn't taped. Or better yet, a shooting box that got kicked out of its' position by another shooter and not noticed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosapiens Posted June 1, 2022 Share Posted June 1, 2022 (edited) 12 hours ago, Robertwil18 said: But the CoF does not begin until the Make Ready command, correct? If the competitor didnt realize the mags were missing prior to the beginning of the CoF it wouldn't really be interference with the competitot DURING the CoF, would it? Just from a purely technical standpoint?... just because the action happened before the COF starts doesn't affect when the interference happens. To me this is a pretty obvious reshoot, similar to if another competitor knocked over a popper while resetting, or set a mover incorrectly. Also, rule #1. The sport is not served by people trying to find technicalities to screw over shooters for things that are someone else's fault. However...... in 10 years of working major matches and shooting local matches, I have yet to see this happen. Most shooters seem to be paying attention to where their mags are before the beep. And also stages with mags all over the place are stupid anyway. Edited June 1, 2022 by motosapiens Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MHicks Posted June 1, 2022 Share Posted June 1, 2022 Being a primarily Single Stack shooter stages with all mags on barrels aren't my favorite. Usually the staff will explain to shooters when to place mags on barrels so shooters aren't waiting for the make ready before placing them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny_Chimpo Posted June 2, 2022 Share Posted June 2, 2022 8 hours ago, motosapiens said: just because the action happened before the COF starts doesn't affect when the interference happens. Your opinion is directly opposite to what 8.6.4 says. No reshoot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJH Posted June 2, 2022 Share Posted June 2, 2022 3 minutes ago, Johnny_Chimpo said: Your opinion is directly opposite to what 8.6.4 says. No reshoot. I think Moto is right Schultz I mean, err, umm, chimpo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny_Chimpo Posted June 2, 2022 Share Posted June 2, 2022 5 minutes ago, RJH said: I think Moto is right Schultz I mean, err, umm, chimpo I'm sure you do. But both of you are wrong. The course of fire doesn't start until make ready. You can't claim interference for s#!t that happened before then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJH Posted June 2, 2022 Share Posted June 2, 2022 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Johnny_Chimpo said: I'm sure you do. But both of you are wrong. The course of fire doesn't start until make ready. You can't claim interference for s#!t that happened before then. Imagine a Target blows over before the course of fire begins but nobody sees it, you think that competitor is not going to get a reshoot, Schultz? PS didn't you get banned from Enos? You can't even follow the damn rules on a internet forum, so quit preaching Junior Edited June 2, 2022 by RJH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny_Chimpo Posted June 2, 2022 Share Posted June 2, 2022 (edited) 26 minutes ago, RJH said: Imagine a Target blows over before the course of fire begins but nobody sees it, you think that competitor is not going to get a reshoot, Schultz? Range equipment failure doesn't apply to shooter's equipment. Try again. Do you even RO? 26 minutes ago, RJH said: PS didn't you get banned from Enos? You can't even follow the damn rules on a internet forum, so quit preaching Junior Wrong again, but I don't feel the need to explain. Edited June 2, 2022 by Johnny_Chimpo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJH Posted June 2, 2022 Share Posted June 2, 2022 (edited) 30 minutes ago, Johnny_Chimpo said: Range equipment failure doesn't apply to shooter's equipment. Try again. Do you even RO? Wrong again, but I don't feel the need to explain. 8.6.4 Another external influence interferes, do you even read? When they were moved doesn't matter, the interference happens during the course of fire when the mags are not there And are you you saying that you aren't Shultz, or or that you weren't banned? Maybe you weren't banned, but I am pretty sure you are Shultz..... Edited June 2, 2022 by RJH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny_Chimpo Posted June 2, 2022 Share Posted June 2, 2022 26 minutes ago, RJH said: 8.6.4 Another external influence interferes, do you even read? I read the entire paragraph, not the section that selectively proves the point I'm trying to make. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJH Posted June 2, 2022 Share Posted June 2, 2022 Just now, Johnny_Chimpo said: I read the entire paragraph, not the section that selectively proves the point I'm trying to make. So then you must agree that the range officer "may" offer a reshoot. Because another shooter moving your mags without anyone's knowledge would definitely be "another external influence" that would definitely interfere during the course of fire Nice how you didn't answer the second question, Schultz... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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