Jump to content
Brian Enos's Forums... Maku mozo!

Need pointers on sight picture


virtwo

Recommended Posts

On 5/29/2022 at 1:25 PM, RJH said:

Just an FYI, grip strength is not why you are missing in slow fire

 

Actually, after trying the squeeze thing I like it. It has found it's place on office desk now :)

 

On 5/29/2022 at 3:33 PM, Johnny_Chimpo said:

@virtwo can you post some video of you shooting?  Preferably a side view so we can see the pistol's behavior during recoil?  Slow motion would be even better.

 

I will go range on Saturday. I will try to get this. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yesterday visited range. Tried working on how I stand and grip. First attempt at 5 yard and 10 yard went bad. Almost 5-6" group size.

 

Then tried twice at 5y and once at 7y. This time it went better. Was able to manage 2-3" group size.

 

One thing I noticed. After sometime I unconsciously become kind of stiff with joints locked. Last attempt at 5y kept body relaxed intentionally, and it went better (~2" group). 

 

Took video of the grip from both sides.

 

https://youtube.com/shorts/zqp9AE5nhe4?feature=share

 

https://youtube.com/shorts/aB6w_kqPbf8?feature=share

 

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

45 minutes ago, virtwo said:

Yesterday visited range. Tried working on how I stand and grip. First attempt at 5 yard and 10 yard went bad. Almost 5-6" group size.

 

Then tried twice at 5y and once at 7y. This time it went better. Was able to manage 2-3" group size.

 

One thing I noticed. After sometime I unconsciously become kind of stiff with joints locked. Last attempt at 5y kept body relaxed intentionally, and it went better (~2" group). 

 

Took video of the grip from both sides.

 

https://youtube.com/shorts/zqp9AE5nhe4?feature=share

 

https://youtube.com/shorts/aB6w_kqPbf8?feature=share

 

 

 

 

I’m by no means a pro, but on your RH video it looks like your left index finger is up against your trigger finger. Might lower your support hand a little to give your trigger finger some room to move without interference. Your middle finger on your right hand should be up against the trigger guard and your index on the left hand below that. Someone else with more experience may chime in with a correction to that. 

Edited by Farmer
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 6/6/2022 at 12:10 AM, virtwo said:

Yesterday visited range. Tried working on how I stand and grip. First attempt at 5 yard and 10 yard went bad. Almost 5-6" group size.

 

Then tried twice at 5y and once at 7y. This time it went better. Was able to manage 2-3" group size.

 

One thing I noticed. After sometime I unconsciously become kind of stiff with joints locked. Last attempt at 5y kept body relaxed intentionally, and it went better (~2" group). 

 

Took video of the grip from both sides.

 

https://youtube.com/shorts/zqp9AE5nhe4?feature=share

 

https://youtube.com/shorts/aB6w_kqPbf8?feature=share

 

 

 

I see some room for improvement in your left hand placement.  I'll get into it later when I have time.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Watched your video.

1st, accuracy is a function of two things, the combo of bullet and gun design and then the ability to not move the gun while pulling the trigger.

 

2nd, Grip is for control of the gun.

 

What I noticed in your grip is your support hand (L) needs to be rotated a little bit more forward and down, this locks the arm and reduces movement. Look at Stoeger's support hand. 

 

Charlie Perez makes a big deal about strengthening your support hand. You will need over 100 lbs of grip force to control recoil for rapid followup shots.

 

Trigger control comes from a relaxed strong hand on the trigger. You appear to tense up with every shot and have a little flinch.

 

In Stoeger's videos do you notice how relaxed he looks? It's something he teaches in his classes, relax your shoulders and try not to tense up.

 

Practice Stoeger's Dot Drill, 6 shots from draw into 2" circle at 5 yards in 5 seconds. You should also be able to put 10 shots in an 8" circle at 25 yards on demand (no speed requirement and assuming gun/ammo is capable).

 

Dry fire practice and observe sight movement with trigger press.

 

Practice is the only solution. And push yourself!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 6/5/2022 at 9:53 PM, Farmer said:

I’m by no means a pro, but on your RH video it looks like your left index finger is up against your trigger finger. Might lower your support hand a little to give your trigger finger some room to move without interference. Your middle finger on your right hand should be up against the trigger guard and your index on the left hand below that. Someone else with more experience may chime in with a correction to that. 

 

On 6/7/2022 at 7:44 AM, HesedTech said:

Watched your video.

1st, accuracy is a function of two things, the combo of bullet and gun design and then the ability to not move the gun while pulling the trigger.

 

2nd, Grip is for control of the gun.

 

What I noticed in your grip is your support hand (L) needs to be rotated a little bit more forward and down, this locks the arm and reduces movement. Look at Stoeger's support hand. 

 

Charlie Perez makes a big deal about strengthening your support hand. You will need over 100 lbs of grip force to control recoil for rapid followup shots.

 

Trigger control comes from a relaxed strong hand on the trigger. You appear to tense up with every shot and have a little flinch.

 

In Stoeger's videos do you notice how relaxed he looks? It's something he teaches in his classes, relax your shoulders and try not to tense up.

 

Practice Stoeger's Dot Drill, 6 shots from draw into 2" circle at 5 yards in 5 seconds. You should also be able to put 10 shots in an 8" circle at 25 yards on demand (no speed requirement and assuming gun/ammo is capable).

 

Dry fire practice and observe sight movement with trigger press.

 

Practice is the only solution. And push yourself!

 

On 6/7/2022 at 3:31 PM, Johnny_Chimpo said:

@virtwo Compare the left side of your grip to this.  You need to be doing this.  The base of your left thumb should be way higher than it is, and you'll know you're doing it right when you feel a stretch or strain on your left wrist that you are not feeling now.

 

 

 

Thanks everyone.

Excuse the delayed reply.

Have been been working on the grip while doing dry fire.

Trying to grip it as shown tin the picture shared.

 

Will be going to range on Saturday. Will update after.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

One thing I'll mention that no one else has in response to something you said earlier. You will never get rid of the wobble zone. Your gun is always going to be moving a little bit, especially during a USPSA match. I used to demo when teaching classes I could move the gun all around in a figure 8 and still shoot good groups. What you can't do and still shoot good groups is jerk the trigger. 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, waktasz said:

One thing I'll mention that no one else has in response to something you said earlier. You will never get rid of the wobble zone. Your gun is always going to be moving a little bit, especially during a USPSA match. I used to demo when teaching classes I could move the gun all around in a figure 8 and still shoot good groups. What you can't do and still shoot good groups is jerk the trigger. 

 

 

 

Yup! Having hard to make it still but the more I try the more it wobbles.

 

Update from this Saturday. Fired 150 shots while working on the grip, from 5 yards. 80% landed in 2" and rest 5-6".

 

 

 

Towards the end I was in a little hurry to wrap up and started being a little more casual and having fun. Fired 30 shots and they ended up much better. Learnt/realized something. I think I was applying too much grip pressure. 

 

So, I fired 10 of 30 rounds in quick succession and they landed good. Next 10, intentionally fired with a little relaxed grip. Most ended up good. Few went stray as I lowered grip pressure too much. Last 10 fired again with decent grip pressure but being a little "casual" with keeping wobble to zero and shots landed good.

 

I will try again next Saturday. Will try keeping right hand pressure low. 

 

Thanks everyone for the pointers.

 

This from the last 30 shots. Before this rest 120 looked much more scattered.

 

 

PXL_20220614_051008029_2.thumb.jpg.af837dbf7e7f48be4f6eca48d3539419.jpg

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, virtwo said:

 

Yup! Having hard to make it still but the more I try the more it wobbles.

 

Update from this Saturday. Fired 150 shots while working on the grip, from 5 yards. 80% landed in 2" and rest 5-6".

 

 

 

Towards the end I was in a little hurry to wrap up and started being a little more casual and having fun. Fired 30 shots and they ended up much better. Learnt/realized something. I think I was applying too much grip pressure. 

 

So, I fired 10 of 30 rounds in quick succession and they landed good. Next 10, intentionally fired with a little relaxed grip. Most ended up good. Few went stray as I lowered grip pressure too much. Last 10 fired again with decent grip pressure but being a little "casual" with keeping wobble to zero and shots landed good.

 

I will try again next Saturday. Will try keeping right hand pressure low. 

 

Thanks everyone for the pointers.

 

This from the last 30 shots. Before this rest 120 looked much more scattered.

 

 

PXL_20220614_051008029_2.thumb.jpg.af837dbf7e7f48be4f6eca48d3539419.jpg

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You can never have too much support hand grip force.  You can overgrip with your strong hand though, and I suspect that's what you meant.

 

To learn to shoot quickly, you'll need to accept that the pistol will never be perfectly still.

 

That definitely looks like progress

Link to comment
Share on other sites

When you're shooting groups, less pressure may help...but in a match situation, that's not going to be the answer. 
You don't have to death grip with your strong hand though. Most of the recoil control comes from your weak hand pressure and leverage. Also, the more surface area/contact area you have on the gun, the less you actually have to squeeze, so work on proper grip technique and getting as much meat on the left side of the gun as possible. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 5/23/2022 at 11:59 PM, virtwo said:

Hi,

 

First post, a newbie to shooting and here with a question. Have been following this sub-forum and trying to learn from others experience.

 

Background

 

Have been shooting on weekly basis from last few month months. Right now trying to improve marksmanship. Started with a rental Mark IV with red dot. At 5 yards most shot end in 2" group, and at 15 yards they end in 5-6" group. 

 

Last month purchased a Shadow 1. After few practice sessions started getting 2" group at 5 yards. At 15 yards it opened up to 12" and 7-8" at 10 yards. 

 

So far was using a 12" black splatter target with 1.5" red bulls eye. Last session switched to a 8" target with an 1" red bulls eye. This time I got 4-5" group at 5 yards. Tried multiple times but could not do better.

 

Tried thinking of the reasons and I think I have trouble with sight picture w.r.t to target size.

 

Question

 

I am using combat hold and I keep front sight in focus. With 1.5" bulls eye, I can keep sight picture centered in the bulls eye.

 

With 1" bulls eye or at larger distance, sight picture seems to cover the bulls eye and I have trouble aiming.

 

Any pointers on improving aim, when sight picture is bigger that target will be much appreciated. Will be heading to range on Saturday and will try out the advices.

 

If it helps I wear prescription glasses.

 

 

 

 

 As advised, do more dry firing. But also, you can see alot of helpful videos on YouTube hat can help you more on this...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 year later...

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...