Is a PCC REALLY worth having

[DCSigCZ]

I have a Scorpion PCC with 16” barrel that has all HBI upgrades and a Yeti grip upgrade.  I have a series of questions that will help me decide, “Is a PCC REALLY worth having and why?”.  I am doing this because I am deciding whether or not to keep it or sell it.   Note - I do not compete in PCC. That being said, please do not reply with “Just sell it.”  There are other uses for a PCC and I am evaluating if any of them make it worthwhile for me to keep it. 
Aspect #1)  I haven’t yet chronographed it to know how much faster the bullet velocity is out of its 16” barrel versus my 5” barreled pistols.  I am trying to get to the range this weekend to do that and will post my results.  That being said, if you have velocity data for any 16” PCC firing 9mm ammo, what velocities have you measured?  Please reply with ammo brand, grain weight and velocity measured. If you reload and are comfortable doing it, please share your load data.  I’ll go on to Aspect #2 after answering this velocity question.  I hope others are interested in the same aspects of a PCC and will also benefit from this topic. 
Thanks in advance!

Edited May 14, 2022 by DCSigCZ
Shortened title.

[Nathanb]

Yes there is. However I feel that a suppressed short barrel version is where it shines for something other than competition use.  It’s nice to take my 147 grain minor power factor loads and maintain subsonic capability 

[DCSigCZ]

Ah, good logic @Nathanb.  I hadn’t considered the benefits of using it as a suppressor host. Great point.      

[SteelCityShooter]

I can give you some typical velocity data.  The pistol is a 5" M&P9 2.0 and the PCC is a 16" Ruger PC Carbine.  

 

                                                                               Pistol       PCC

125gr Blue Coated RN, 4.0 gr Titegroup.           1108        1244

124 gr Montana Gold JHP, 4.4 Titegroup.          1163.       1261

CCI Blazer, 115 gr Factory Load                          1172        1395

 

So, yes, the PCC produces a significant increase in velocity.   Loads with larger charges of slower powders should make this difference even greater.

[DCSigCZ]

@SteelCityShooterI really appreciate the velocity data.  A few observations: as you mention, it seems that Titegroup is a faster burning powder, as one would expect since it’s a pistol competition powder.  It’s quite interesting that the factory round had about twice the increase in velocity as the Titegroup rounds had - 223 fps vs. 98 and 136 fps.  Of course, the Blazer is also 115 grain.  Being a lighter projectile, it’s more sensitive to powder, burn rate and length of time the force of combustion is applied so it seems logical that would be the result.  What do you think?

Edited May 14, 2022 by DCSigCZ

[Dirty_J]

5 hours ago, Nathanb said:

Yes there is. However I feel that a suppressed short barrel version is where it shines for something other than competition use.  It’s nice to take my 147 grain minor power factor loads and maintain subsonic capability 

I’m with you. A 16” PCC is nearly worthless as a self defense tool… they are range toys and gamer guns. 
 

With that said… my Scorpion SBR is by far one of my favorite guns. Excellent suppressor host. 
 

[philmadxx]

I don't see nearly as much of a velocity difference as SteelCity - I've heard that JP GMR-15s have "slow" barrels.  Anyway:

 

"Pins" load - RMR MW FP 147gr with 4.8gr Vihtavuori N-340 @1.12. OAL = 1072fps (CZ Czechmate 5.25"), 1097fps (JP GMR-15 14.5") - 25fps difference

"Plinking" load - RMR RN 124gr with 3.9gr Win 231 @1.12 OAL =  994 fps (CZ Czechmate 5.25"), 1016fps (JP GMP-15 14.5") - 22fps difference

 

I use my PCC for competition so the cool factor is not as big a deal to me but your Scorpion is all kinds of bad-ass - unless you need the cash, keep it.  You'll shoot it.

 

Phil 

 

[DCSigCZ]

@philmadxxvery thorough data with interesting lack of velocity variation.  Thank you.   I’m on my way to Academy to hopefully pick up the new Milspec 9mm ammo that has a claimed velocity of 1340 so I can include it in my velocity test.  I also have a few handloads left to run.  

 

@Dirty_Jthat is a beauty.  Well done.  
 

[KeithC]

My interest in PCCs stems from shooting IDPA, USPSA and Steel Challenge with them.  If you’re not playing the gun games, I’m not sure that carbine-length PCCs are all that useful.  I do think a 7-10” or so pistol with a brace is worthwhile as a home defense or truck gun, especially given the ability to mount a light, laser, optic, etc.

 

I recently chrono’d my 16” AR rifle, 8” AR pistol and Glock 19 with Blazer Brass 115 grain FMJ to make sure I was making power factor with the rifle, and to see what the velocity difference was by barrel length.  Here’s the average chrono data:

 

16” rifle:  1350 fps

8” pistol:  1240 fps

Glock 19:  1104 fps

 

I do have a 16” Scorpion that I used to shoot in the gun games.  It’s well-made, and mine’s been 100% reliable, but there’s quite a bit of bounce/recoil when you’re double-tapping targets.  And there’s really no way to tune it like you can an AR variant.  But I’ll keep it anyway because I like it.

[RJH]

Only useful for the games. For rifle work, get a rifle

[SteelCityShooter]

On 5/14/2022 at 6:00 PM, DCSigCZ said:

@SteelCityShooterI really appreciate the velocity data.  A few observations: as you mention, it seems that Titegroup is a faster burning powder, as one would expect since it’s a pistol competition powder.  It’s quite interesting that the factory round had about twice the increase in velocity as the Titegroup rounds had - 223 fps vs. 98 and 136 fps.  Of course, the Blazer is also 115 grain.  Being a lighter projectile, it’s more sensitive to powder, burn rate and length of time the force of combustion is applied so it seems logical that would be the result.  What do you think?

I can only report what my chronograph tells me but it's interesting that KeithC's data for 115 gr Blazer tracks mine very closely.  My pistol velocity was a bit higher since my M&P has a 5" barrel and his Glock a 4" barrel.

 

As to your original question, yes a 16" PCC is most useful as a competition gun but, as a defense weapon, it's not any more awkward than the often recommended 18" pump shotgun. 

Edited May 16, 2022 by SteelCityShooter

[Dirty_J]

Let’s not forget.. at the end of the day… who cares how practical a firearm may be. Sometimes they just need to be fun! 

[Shootingaggie]

With the timney trigger, the scorpion is a whole different gun

[Vizorn]

Shooting steel at close range is problematic with rifle calibers. Most ranges will not allow steel to be shot with anything other than pistol calibers. There is value in a PCC in this situation.  I’m also with Dirty_J, the fun factor should also be a consideration, particularly for introducing new shooters to our world who may be sensitive to muzzle blast. 

[justMatt]

and cheaper ammo = more fun.

[blue72]

Yes! I got into PCC for several reasons

 

1. I prefer indoor shooting ranges, many don’t allow rifles

 

2. I can no longer take the loud concussion from rifles during my long range sessions, especially indoors. Matter of fact, one shot indoors is enough for me to put the rifle away

 

3. 9mm ammo is cheaper then 223

 

4. I no longer shoot beyond 150 yards anymore, so I really don’t need the extended range of a rifle

 

5. no matter how much I improve my pistol skills. I can still make way more accurate shots with a pcc with a lot less effort and skill. Especially at longer ranges

 

6. suppressed, 9mm is way more quiet then 223

 

7.  I love having one set of mags that fit both pcc and pistols

[Shootingaggie]

They are fun. Is there a need for any other reason?

[Joe4d]

I have no interest in a PCC suitable for USPSA/ steel etc... However PCC's are as useful for everything else as they have ever been,,  Truck gun , ranch gun, home defense, saddle gun,,, a short PCC that matches the hand guns ammo is as handy as its ever been.

[truespode]

I prefer my PCC over my AR15. I am thinking of selling my AR15 and getting an AR10 in 308 or 6.5 CM but I don't think I can give up the PCC. It is a great home defense weapon and fun to shoot in competition on occasion. 

[Rickenbacker53]

If you mean for self defense . 9mm will work well . As for 16 Inch being to clumsy . That's nonsense .  Besides you may wish before to much longer , you have every source of firepower you get lay your hands on . You wouldn't get much for it to sell it . I just found several places selling the latest 3+ models for $780.00 .  So maybe you'd get $500.00 .. May as well keep it just in case 

Edited October 31 by Rickenbacker53

[theautobahn]

I have a pile of short PCCs (pistols w/ braces and one SBR [for now]). AR9, AR-V, AK-V, Scorpion, MP5 clone, etc. They're a ton of fun, but none will ever be my "go to" for a defensive use. I'd always rather have something in at least .223. Similar size platform but huge difference in terminal ballistics and barrier penetration (for a truck gun). Don't get me wrong - folding / collapsing stocks make them awfully handy, but to me, not enough of a difference that I'm not always going to grab one of my 11.5 ARs.

 

That all said, I'm in the process of finally building a couple of 16" rifles for gaming. But that's all they'll ever be used for. I just don't see the benefits to a 16" PCC for anything else.

[Alaskapopo]

I liked PCCs at first as cheaper to shoot understudy guns for normal AR's used for 0 to 50 yard practice. Then I liked competing with them as it was fun. Then I got into suppressors and SBR's you can make a 9mm SBR a lot smaller with a suppressor than a rifle cartridge gun even a 300 blackout. 

[RangerTrace]

I have two.  A JP5 which is awesome and my first SBR built by Alamo Precision Rifles.  It's a 5.5" with a Octane9 can on it.  I took the SBR to our range day yesterday and set up a stage where everyone had to shoot it at the 25.  The guys LOVED it.  My whole family enjoys shooting it as well.  But, the JP5 with the 14.7" barrel is almost as quiet with subs and it shoots way softer. 

 

Everybody should own one PCC even if you don't shoot PCC in matches......like me

[WxGuy]

YES!

[NoKimberDave]

On 10/28/2023 at 5:13 PM, Shootingaggie said:

They are fun. Is there a need for any other reason?

 

NOPE. 

Like rimfire challenge guns (maybe the funnest guns known to mankind). It's ok to use guns for things non tacticular. Go ahead and enjoy it fellas/ladies. Tell your wife/husband/chillins it is for their own protection if you need to.