Primers?

[GrumpyOne]

5 hours ago, ysrracer said:

Can someone explain to me why a .22 round costs $0.07 but a primer costs $0.12?

 

Economy of scale? Supply and demand? Lost leader? iIlluminati?

Because at one time, not long ago, there was also a .22 shortage, and those prices skyrocketed. They made tons of .22 to support demand, market got saturated, the prices fell...not back to where there were, but fell. The demand for primers is still high, so the price remains high. A .22 csn only be shot (barring some weird kind of weapon) out of a .22...A primer is needed for EVERY centerfire round, demand is probably much higher, and they are most likely more difficult and dangerous to make than a .22 round. There is no anvil in a rimfire round.

[Farmer]

46 minutes ago, SnipTheDog said:

Yep, pretty sure you're right about CCI and Vista.  On CCI's web page, there's a link that goes back to Vista Outdoor.  RebateLink

 

I don't know much about Alliant other than they make powder.  Do they do primers too?

No, they alway just made powder. Used to be Hercules, then changed the name to Alliant. 

[GMM50]

4 hours ago, SnipTheDog said:

 

From what I can tell:

• Vista controls Remington and Federal.
• Olin owns CCI and Winchester
• Fiocci is Italian owned, but produces out of Missouri for sale in US.
• Cheddite is Italian and primarily in the shotgun market AFAIK.
• Argentinian primers are available
• Unis Ginex  are out of Bosnia and Herzegovina Ginex

Vista owns CCI and Federal; at least for primers

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vista_Outdoor

I expect your other information might also be suspect.

 

[Chills1994]

1 hour ago, GMM50 said:

Vista owns CCI and Federal; at least for primers

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vista_Outdoor

I expect your other information might also be suspect.

 

yep!  Olin is Olin…errr….Winchester ammunition (which is probably some sort of licensing thing in order to use the “Winchester” name).

 

And yep again!  CCI is owned by Vista Outdoors.

 

so it is basically a duopoly between Vista and Olin.

 

Now, this next part is going to sound like so much of “Ferris Bueller passed out at 31 flavors last night….”

 

But when the ATA Grand was going on a month ago, I made it a point to stop by the Winchester ammo vendor showroom.  I asked one of the regional sales reps there about primer availability.  His response was, “In 2023, you will start seeing primers becoming more available.  Currently, all of our primers are going towards making completely loaded factory ammo.” 

[Miranda]

I need to look into the stock market for ammo makers...

 

[Farmer]

On 9/11/2022 at 6:33 PM, Chills1994 said:

yep!  Olin is Olin…errr….Winchester ammunition (which is probably some sort of licensing thing in order to use the “Winchester” name).

 

And yep again!  CCI is owned by Vista Outdoors.

 

so it is basically a duopoly between Vista and Olin.

 

Now, this next part is going to sound like so much of “Ferris Bueller passed out at 31 flavors last night….”

 

But when the ATA Grand was going on a month ago, I made it a point to stop by the Winchester ammo vendor showroom.  I asked one of the regional sales reps there about primer availability.  His response was, “In 2023, you will start seeing primers becoming more available.  Currently, all of our primers are going towards making completely loaded factory ammo.” 

Well that’s good news but I don’t think I’ll hold my breath. Would just take some other “disaster” to throw a wrench into things but I hope not. 

[pskys2]

12 hours ago, Farmer said:

Well that’s good news but I don’t think I’ll hold my breath. Would just take some other “disaster” to throw a wrench into things but I hope not. 

Yep, I'm sitting on enough to get me through a couple of seasons now.  So I've quit searching with baited breath, but as soon as I reach only a years supply I'll be trolling the sites again.

 

[Chills1994]

On 9/13/2022 at 11:41 PM, Farmer said:

Well that’s good news but I don’t think I’ll hold my breath. Would just take some other “disaster” to throw a wrench into things but I hope not. 

Yep!

 

Agreed!

 

Which is why I have been saving my metallic primer stash, and shooting shotguns way more often now.  I can get Cheddite 209 shotgun primers locally.

 

Wish I could say the same about small pistol and small rifle primers.

 

[Farmer]

14 hours ago, Chills1994 said:

Yep!

 

Agreed!

 

Which is why I have been saving my metallic primer stash, and shooting shotguns way more often now.  I can get Cheddite 209 shotgun primers locally.

 

Wish I could say the same about small pistol and small rifle primers.

 

Same here, haven’t seen anything, but really haven’t had a chance to look either. Been so busy haven’t had time to shoot so maybe that’s a good thing. Picked up a used air soft that’s the same as my XDM so might mess with that for a bit. What are they getting for the Cheddite’s now? Last sleeve I bought was $25 per K and the WW were $30. 

[pskys2]

9 minutes ago, Farmer said:

Same here, haven’t seen anything, but really haven’t had a chance to look either. Been so busy haven’t had time to shoot so maybe that’s a good thing. Picked up a used air soft that’s the same as my XDM so might mess with that for a bit. What are they getting for the Cheddite’s now? Last sleeve I bought was $25 per K and the WW were $30. 

https://www.targetsportsusa.com/small-pistol-c-2807.aspx is the most consistent in having primers in stock.  Sign up for their notifications.  They seem to last from days to weeks too.

[Farmer]

3 minutes ago, pskys2 said:

https://www.targetsportsusa.com/small-pistol-c-2807.aspx is the most consistent in having primers in stock.  Sign up for their notifications.  They seem to last from days to weeks too.

Thanks for the link but I’m sitting ok. I loaded up right before the chaos started. 

[Chills1994]

2 hours ago, Farmer said:

Same here, haven’t seen anything, but really haven’t had a chance to look either. Been so busy haven’t had time to shoot so maybe that’s a good thing. Picked up a used air soft that’s the same as my XDM so might mess with that for a bit. What are they getting for the Cheddite’s now? Last sleeve I bought was $25 per K and the WW were $30. 

For Cheddite 209’s, it’s $60 per brick…locally.

 

Now, Gamaliel… the same people who had the Winchester primers I pictured above…were asking $65 for Cheddite bricks.

 

Mike Graf was there at the Grand, down on the east end under a tent/canopy.  He brought at least 3 trailers with him.  One was nothing but wads.  I think the other was just bags of birdshot.  And then the third trailer was powder and primers.  Mike used to own Graf’s Reloading in St. Charles, MO…. Not to be confused with GrafsDOTcom of Mexico, Missouri. 
 

If you’re every passing through Missouri or make it to some big trap or skeet shoot, Mike should be there:

 

 

whether he actually ships stuff….I have no idea.

 

 

[EEH]

Have bought a lot of stuff from graf and son, is that the same  ?

[Farmer]

3 hours ago, Chills1994 said:

For Cheddite 209’s, it’s $60 per brick…locally.

 

Now, Gamaliel… the same people who had the Winchester primers I pictured above…were asking $65 for Cheddite bricks.

 

Mike Graf was there at the Grand, down on the east end under a tent/canopy.  He brought at least 3 trailers with him.  One was nothing but wads.  I think the other was just bags of birdshot.  And then the third trailer was powder and primers.  Mike used to own Graf’s Reloading in St. Charles, MO…. Not to be confused with GrafsDOTcom of Mexico, Missouri. 
 

If you’re every passing through Missouri or make it to some big trap or skeet shoot, Mike should be there:

 

 

whether he actually ships stuff….I have no idea.

 

 

I don’t trapshoot but there’s a guy in Spokane (Bill) that does the same thing. Think he’s got a large box truck and goes back east and picks up powder and whatever. I just tell my cousin what I need and he grabs it when it shows up. There is a range over by Seattle that would get Cheddite’s and that’s where I got my last sleeve of them from when he went over for a shoot. Shortly after that everything dried up. 

[Sarge]

1 hour ago, EEH said:

Have bought a lot of stuff from graf and son, is that the same  ?

Graf and sons is the Mexico Missouri place

[Chills1994]

4 hours ago, Sarge said:

Graf and sons is the Mexico Missouri place

Yeah, what Sarge said.

 

The one gun club/range I am a member of has a dealer’s account with Graf’s and Son’s of Mexico, MO .  We place orders through the gun club’s treasurer.  Then like every other week a Graf’s truck drops stuff at the range.

 

Mike Graf had a store separate from Graf’s and Son’s.  That store was located ….err…is located in St. Charles, MO.  Back then it was called “Graf’s Reloading”.  Mike sold the store to at least one young guy, an X-Marine.  That was at least 2 years ago.  The Marine(s) renamed it “Full Circle”.  Their interests are more along the lines of PRS competitions (M.O.S.T.) .

 

And I guess Mike moved down to Linn Creek, MO.  I hear he travels around to the larger shotgun shoots and sets up like a vendor tent for himself.  
 

 

[Chills1994]

5 hours ago, Farmer said:

I don’t trapshoot but there’s a guy in Spokane (Bill) that does the same thing. Think he’s got a large box truck and goes back east and picks up powder and whatever. I just tell my cousin what I need and he grabs it when it shows up. There is a range over by Seattle that would get Cheddite’s and that’s where I got my last sleeve of them from when he went over for a shoot. Shortly after that everything dried up. 

I think Mike Graf actually sold out of some stuff like 3 days before the Grand finished, so he packed up early.  
 

From a business perspective, I guess buying or renting several trailers and paying people competent enough to drive them must be cheaper that having an actual storefront that gets just so so foot traffic through it???

[Chills1994]

Here is Mike’s price list from the Grand, a month ago:

 

 

I had to heavily crop the pic down to get it under the file size restrictions here.  So that might be Mike himself….standing at the cash register.  Which IIRC, it was just strictly cash… no credit cards, no debit cards…. No checks.

 

I was standing in line thinking about buying a jug of Tightgroup, but it was so hot, I was like already melting.  He had  runners going back and forth to the trailers fetching the various products for the customers.  The line could only move so fast, so I bailed.

[Farmer]

12 hours ago, Chills1994 said:

I think Mike Graf actually sold out of some stuff like 3 days before the Grand finished, so he packed up early.  
 

From a business perspective, I guess buying or renting several trailers and paying people competent enough to drive them must be cheaper that having an actual storefront that gets just so so foot traffic through it???

That’s pretty much what the fellow here does. Cash only no hazmat first come first served. Not having a store could be a benefit, no utilities, fire regulations, rent, taxes ect. Just have your fuel, license’s maintenance, so it may be a wash. As long as he runs trailers with XX amount weight, don’t think you need placards.  I think Bill has a couple bunkers that he stores his extras in. Was some talk that there was some “city folk” that were looking for property and were “concerned.” They just need to look elsewhere. 

Edited September 17, 2022 by Farmer
Sp

[gargoil66]

Guys:

 

See that Powder Valley has Fed 100's.

 

Limit of 1K per day.

 

$95.00 per K.  $20.00 Hazmat plus another $10.00 sales tax for me.

 

Will wait for another place that will allow at least 5K at once.  

 

Pretty frustrating.

 

GG

[ysrracer]

9 minutes ago, gargoil66 said:

Guys:

 

See that Powder Valley has Fed 100's.

 

Limit of 1K per day.

 

$95.00 per K.  $20.00 Hazmat plus another $10.00 sales tax for me.

 

Will wait for another place that will allow at least 5K at once.  

 

Pretty frustrating.

 

GG

 

It's a start, but I'm still waiting.

[Boomstick303]

Scored 2000 primers for $75 / 1k, for Federal Small Pistol Magnum primers at Scheels.  I see more and more primers on the shelves at Scheels, so hopefully things are starting to move in the right direction.  Not a bad price either.

[rooster mcbee]

I got 5000 from Natchez for $95/1k plus all the applicable fee's, Federal small pistol.  More than I wanted to pay, of course, but I'm happy to have them.  Natchez seems to have them fairly regularly.

[gargoil66]

13 hours ago, Boomstick303 said:

Scored 2000 primers for $75 / 1k, for Federal Small Pistol Magnum primers at Scheels.  I see more and more primers on the shelves at Scheels, so hopefully things are starting to move in the right direction.  Not a bad price either.

BS303:

 

Yes, but they are not as sensitive as Fed 100's.  My buddies would pick up a brick once in a while from a local Sportsmans during the time when it was almost impossible to find any primers.  Had to tighten the strain screw quite a bit and even then I had light strikes more often than anyone would like.

 

I will wait until someone has Fed 100's or CCI Small Pistol primers in stock and will sell at least 5K at a time.

 

GG

[gargoil66]

13 hours ago, ysrracer said:

 

It's a start, but I'm still waiting.

It seems like Federal will push some primers onto the market every five or six months and I am surprised I haven't seen them for sale at any of the other big online stores.  However, this is the first time in over a year I have seen them for sale at Powder Valley.

 

GG