AIWB vs OWB DOH draw time

[Scooter]

It seems like there are people jumping for joy over IDPA allowing AIWB and getting all mad with clubs not allowing it. At the end of the day, it's still a match and most people don't compete with what they carry.

 

Given that drop and offset holsters are allowed I would think that would be faster than any IWB.

 

Thoughts?

[MarilynMonbro]

I think aiwb could be just as fast as the typical owb setup with a vest. 

 

And I think drop off set will be slower than both. You still need a cover garment and it would need to be longer if your holster was dropped and might snag more

Edited April 24, 2022 by MarilynMonbro

[Jim Watson]

I don't know about speed of draw, but at yesterday's match, the bellybutton rigs were blossoming like spring flowers.

 

Guys with drop holsters, zero.

[OpenshooterMclass4lyfe]

I can clear my shirt and draw faster from appendix then I can throwing a cover garment like a vest or other cover type garment out of the way on an owb holster.    Albeit draw times don’t equate to much time saved on a stage so I don’t think it really matters that much.  

[Johnny_Chimpo]

11 hours ago, Scooter said:

clubs not allowing it.

 

 

Wait a minute, IDPA lets clubs pick and choose which parts of the rulebook they'll accept?

[Jim Watson]

If range management does not consider a bellybutton holster safe, they can disallow it.  Just as many places disallow the SERPA.

 

2.13 Club Safety Rules

Ranges that host IDPA matches may have additional or more restrictive safety requirements. These safety restrictions will be accommodated by the IDPA MD and staff provided that they do not interfere or conflict with the Purpose and Principles of IDPA or the administration of the match according to the IDPA Safety Rules. Any additional restrictions or requirements must be published in all match announcements and visibly displayed at the match in a location accessible to the shooters.

[Johnny_Chimpo]

2 hours ago, Jim Watson said:

If range management does not consider a bellybutton holster safe, they can disallow it.  Just as many places disallow the SERPA.

 

2.13 Club Safety Rules

Ranges that host IDPA matches may have additional or more restrictive safety requirements. These safety restrictions will be accommodated by the IDPA MD and staff provided that they do not interfere or conflict with the Purpose and Principles of IDPA or the administration of the match according to the IDPA Safety Rules. Any additional restrictions or requirements must be published in all match announcements and visibly displayed at the match in a location accessible to the shooters.

 

Groovy fuddness

[Johnny_Chimpo]

13 hours ago, Scooter said:

Given that drop and offset holsters are allowed I would think that would be faster than any IWB.

 

This should give you an idea of how fast one can draw from concealed AIWB

 

Of course, one has to work at it.  But it's much less motion and distance needed to get the gun into action from in front of you.

 

[Scooter]

It looks fast but all the videos I've seen, but people are keeping their hands in front of them next to the shirt. Starting position is hand naturally at sides. The videos with hands not in front doesn't appear any faster.

 

[MarilynMonbro]

On 4/24/2022 at 7:42 PM, Scooter said:

It looks fast but all the videos I've seen, but people are keeping their hands in front of them next to the shirt. Starting position is hand naturally at sides. The videos with hands not in front doesn't appear any faster.

 

The last idpa major I shot every stage was wrists below belt

[Jim Watson]

Interesting.  Procedure accommodating the gear.  

 

3.7.2  Unless specified otherwise in the stage description, the default ready position requires the shooter to stand erect with the body relaxed and hands resting naturally at sides.

 

We won't get into what The Other Guys do when told "hands naturally at sides."

[Johnny_Chimpo]

On 4/27/2022 at 9:26 AM, Jim Watson said:

We won't get into what The Other Guys do when told "hands naturally at sides."

 

If you knew anything about USPSA you would know that there is an illustration on page 117 of the rule book (AKA appendix 3) that shows exactly what "hands naturally at sides" looks like.

 

When the WSB says that's the start position, I don't start anyone until they assume that stance as shown in the book.  Most WSB don't use the phrase "hands naturally at sides" any more and instead state "wrists below belt" or "wrists above shoulders" or "wrists above respective shoulders".  Any of which can be objectively described and compliance is easy and unambiguous to enforce.

[Jim Watson]

I've seen the picture and I have seen the shooters. Not the same position. 

Obviously they think they are getting away with something advantageous. 

 

This at a small local event. Do they go by the illustration at a big match?

i don't know. 

[Johnny_Chimpo]

1 hour ago, Jim Watson said:

I've seen the picture and I have seen the shooters. Not the same position. 

 

 

It depends what the WSB says

[rowdyb]

With a full size gun in an owb holster, under a 5.11 vest, hands truly at my sides, my draw to a -0 at 7 yards is a very consistent 1.3 seconds.

With a p10c/g19 sized gun, in an aiwb holster, under a t shirt, hands truly at my sides, my draw to a -0 at 7 yards is a very consistent 1.1 seconds.

 

I'll take that. Where the issue comes is in the position of your shirt when it comes time for a reload.

And as someone who did lots of RWR as part of my stage plans, I used a vest pocket exclusively for it. So now I don't have that option, throwing another possible slow down into the mix. Is what I gain on the draw possibly lost in the reload, whether slide lock or retention?

[motosapiens]

On 5/14/2022 at 9:11 PM, Jim Watson said:

I've seen the picture and I have seen the shooters. Not the same position. 

Obviously they think they are getting away with something advantageous. 

 

This at a small local event. Do they go by the illustration at a big match?

i don't know. 

big matches don't use 'hands naturally at sides' because it's dumb, and most people don't look like the illustration. big matches nowadays say 'wrists below belt', 'hands touching x's', or sometimes they don't say anything at all, and let you hover with your hand 1mm from your gun, so you draw from a position you have NEVER practiced and screw it up.

 

Whatever it takes to get rid of fudds complaining that your hands aren't 'naturally' at your sides is ok by me.