1911 Went full auto today at a level one match. Trigger travel screw???

[Adam0306]

So, I have a 1911 Springfield Armory Loaded with about 600-800 rounds through it.  I have added grips, a clip-on mag well and an extended mag release.   No internal gunsmithing or parts replacements.  

 

 

 

I was shooting a stage and the gun fired off a burst of 3 rounds.  Then two standard shots, then another 3 round burts.  Nobody was hurt and I managed to keep all rounds on target.  I took it to the safe area after dropping my mags off and began to trouble shoot.  

 

 

 

I would pull the trigger, rack the slide, and every 3-4 times I did this, the hammer would follow.  We took out the sear spring, checked it and it seemed to work.  I shot it again and sure enough, three round burst.  

 

 

 

I get home and began to tear it down.  Everything looked fine.  I swapped out the sear, disconnect, hammer and sear spring from my SA Operator with the loaded.  The loaded's hammer would still fall after a slide rack with me holding the trigger to the rear.  The Operator, with the loaded parts would not.  So only the loaded would have this problem.  

 

 

 

Then I noticed that the trigger travel screw on the loaded as visible threads whereas the Operator did not.  I adjusted the trigger travel and screwed the travel screw in the loaded deeper.  Sure enough, I cannot replicate the problem now.  

 

 

 

Has anyone ever heard of or saw the trigger travel screw allowing the weapon to fire on full auto?  

 

 

 

Thanks for the help.  

[Sarge]

My first thought would be put the gun back the way it was and test fire. Replace those few parts one at a time and see what happens

[Adam0306]

That is my intent.  I put everything back the way it was and only adjusted the trigger travel screw.  I cannot replicate the problem now.  We shall see.  

 

On another note, the ammo I was shooting today was 230 GN RN under 5.2 grains of titegroup.  So those are getting shot tomorrow and I am going with something a bit more tame. 

[Cherokeewind]

My first thought is that the sear spring doesn't have enough tension on the two left "legs".  Not enough tension on either (or both) of the two left legs can cause the hammer to follow the slide down.

[Adam0306]

That was the first suggestion.   The primary reason I am leaning towards the trigger travel is that without changing anything internally, I am replicate the issue by adjusting the trigger in. 

 

I adjust the trigger travel out and I can get the hammer to fall everytime I hold the trigger to the rear and rack the slide.  

I adjust the trigger travel in and I cannot get the hammer to fall while holding the trigger and racking the slide. 

[konkapot]

Tread lightly as you test/assess this problem. Maybe only put 1-2 rounds in a mag when testing. 

[Adam0306]

I WILL.  I have ashot a great deal of full auto weapons, but a full auto 1911 is not my idea of fun.  

 

[lefty o]

the trigger does need some over travel. normal is to set screw to zero over travel, then back off an 1/8 turn.

[Adam0306]

Went to the range today to shoot a rifle match. Broke out the Springfield pistol and put about 50 rounds through it. Zero issues.  I guess the rigger travel was the issue. We have a bit before the next ISPSA match so I still think I am going to drop it off at the smith just to make sure. 

[sfinney]

Trigger overtravel screw impacts the newly replaced mag release you mentioned. Could be the screw needs a little more slack with the new release. And/or more sear spring pressure, left legs.

 

 

[Adam0306]

4 minutes ago, sfinney said:

Trigger overtravel screw impacts the newly replaced mag release you mentioned. Could be the screw needs a little more slack with the new release. And/or more sear spring pressure, left legs.

 

 

Thanks for the reply. I will mention that to the smith. I am thinking about ditching the night sights while I am there and having them throw on some adjustables as I am still trying to find a load I like. 

[Johnny_Chimpo]

On 4/9/2022 at 8:19 PM, Adam0306 said:

a full auto 1911 is not my idea of fun. 

 

IDK man, that does sound intriguing

[Adam0306]

22 hours ago, Johnny_Chimpo said:

 

IDK man, that does sound intriguing

Ok, well a full auto 1911 during a match is not fun when you are trying to become classified. 

[JohnT-73401]

On 4/9/2022 at 6:29 PM, Adam0306 said:

So, I have a 1911 Springfield Armory Loaded with about 600-800 rounds through it.   

The first thing is that you only have 800 rounds through the gun. It's new and defective. Consider sending the gun back to Springfield. It should have a life time warranty, yes? 

 

I have not heard of a over-travel screw causing full-auto, so I did a little research. There is a thread on 1911Forum that discussed a gun with a similar problem. A combination of defective grip safety and too much trigger travel can cause the disconnect to lift up on the sear spring. This reduces sear spring pressure and causes the sear to bounce out of engagement when the slide goes forward. I'll post a link. Read post number 26. https://www.1911forum.com/threads/full-auto-1911.1026291/page-2 The guy posting that info is a very knowledgeable member of that forum. 

 

I don't know for sure that your problem is the same as the OPs on the 1911 Forum, but it's possible. It's hard to diagnose these kinds of things without the gun in your hands and I'm not a 1911 guru. I was originally thinking it was left leg sear spring pressure, but the overtravel thing really didn't make sense. There could be a bunch of other causes, but it might be wise to let Springfield sort it out. 

Edited April 13, 2022 by JohnT-73401
add a little

[Adam0306]

On 4/12/2022 at 9:51 PM, JohnT-73401 said:

The first thing is that you only have 800 rounds through the gun. It's new and defective. Consider sending the gun back to Springfield. It should have a life time warranty, yes? 

 

I have not heard of a over-travel screw causing full-auto, so I did a little research. There is a thread on 1911Forum that discussed a gun with a similar problem. A combination of defective grip safety and too much trigger travel can cause the disconnect to lift up on the sear spring. This reduces sear spring pressure and causes the sear to bounce out of engagement when the slide goes forward. I'll post a link. Read post number 26. https://www.1911forum.com/threads/full-auto-1911.1026291/page-2 The guy posting that info is a very knowledgeable member of that forum. 

 

I don't know for sure that your problem is the same as the OPs on the 1911 Forum, but it's possible. It's hard to diagnose these kinds of things without the gun in your hands and I'm not a 1911 guru. I was originally thinking it was left leg sear spring pressure, but the overtravel thing really didn't make sense. There could be a bunch of other causes, but it might be wise to let Springfield sort it out. 

Thank you.  That option is certainly not out of the question.  

[Paul B]

Recently had a similar problem. A para frame that had been used extensively in competition with no problems whatsoever. Decided to rebuild the upper with new barrel and slide etc. Started doubling consistently 2 shot doubles (considered leaving it that way but decided it probably should be fixed ). First blamed it for just sitting in the safe for 15 years (you know safes damage guns) but eventually replaced all parts - no luck. Finally, got a disconnector that was slightly longer and the problem went away. Amazing what a few thousands will do. The new slide must have had a slightly different disconnector notch.

Edited April 17, 2022 by Paul B

[ShredderTactical]

Below is a link to a YouTube video by Atlas Gun Works that gives a good overview of some hammer follow and burst problems.  Sounds like they provide a good show and tell for the OP's problem and fix.
https://youtu.be/SAvIQoyxK3s

Edited April 17, 2022 by ShredderTactical
Clarification.

[usmc1974]

On 4/9/2022 at 6:29 PM, Adam0306 said:

s shooting a stage and the gun fired off a burst of 3 rounds.  Then two standard shots, then another 3 round burts.  I could

not replicate the problem now.  

many, many years ago, I had one do that 3 rounds in less then a second all touching in that A zone like 3 leaf clover. I was instantly DQ'ed. I couldn't replicate the problem ever. lol  I hope all goes well repairing your pistola.

Edited April 17, 2022 by usmc1974

[Sarge]

2 hours ago, usmc1974 said:

many, many years ago, I had one do that 3 rounds in less then a second all touching in that A zone like 3 leaf clover. I was instantly DQ'ed. I couldn't replicate the problem ever. lol  I hope all goes well repairing your pistola.

You got screwed. Gun should have been retired but it's not a DQ.

[MuayThaiJJ]

Check the tension on the left leaf of sear spring

[usmc1974]

36 minutes ago, Sarge said:

You got screwed. Gun should have been retired but it's not a DQ.

I have only heard this once before, about 6 years ago this guy had a AD about 6" in front of his foot. He was DQ,ed. he put that gun away, and came back with a different gun. He told us to same thing. He can't be DQ'ed just DQ the gun. The MD said the DQ was final. I did not know this thought the MD was correct.

Edited April 17, 2022 by usmc1974

[Sarge]

15 minutes ago, usmc1974 said:

I have only heard this once before, about 6 years ago this guy had a AD about 6" in front of his foot. He was DQ,ed. he put that gun away, and came back with a different gun. He told us to same thing. He can't be DQ'ed just DQ the gun. The MD said the DQ was final. I did not know this thought the MD was correct.

That guy should have been DQ'ed, but not you.