Kidd 10/22 Trigger not resetting

[RickT]

Trigger is not resetting on one of my wife's 10/22s.  Rifle is clean, bolt return spring quite new.  First thing I did was drop in a spare trigger group; problem remained at about 1 of every 5 rounds.  When this happens the trigger is pinned back.  I've even had it happen when I manually chambered a round.  When I pulled the extractor and spring things were really bummed up, but not so much so as to hamper ejection.  We'll be at the range this Monday and while I'll clean things up I'll also drop in a new spring and extractor, but how can this cause the trigger not to reset?  Right now I have my fingers crossed but just in case I'll bring the bolt from her other gun.

[motosapiens]

normally a trigger not resetting is a problem with the trigger return spring, or dirt and crud in the mechanism. i would take the trigger entirely out and clean thoroughly and inspect the pin it pivots on.

[jrdoran]

check to make sure the guide rod when sitting in the pocket and bolt is pretty much parallel in the receiver.  If it isn't, it will bind up as the bolt travels backward.  Personally the Kidd guide rod and spring kit is a useful addition as the guide rod is super smooth coupled with strength.  It will serve you well for many years. 

 

Sounds like it needs a really good cleaning including the trigger group.   I'd use brake clean spray on everything and then lube the trigger pivot points and bolt surfaces and guide rod upon re-assembly.

[RickT]

Both trigger sets exhibited exactly the same failure.  That is baffling.  I'll bring some brake cleaner to the range on Monday but the trigger assemblies had been cleaned recently.

[jrdoran]

That is why I pointed at the guide rod a possibility and interaction with bolt.

[Gregg K]

Download the instructions..

https://www.coolguyguns.com/PDF-Documents_df_37.html

 

Increase the weight of the trigger by turning the adjustment clockwise inside the housing for the trigger reset. The housing for the reset pin also adjusts but don't mess with that, you need to increase the pressure on the back of the pin in the housing that presses against the back of the trigger.

 

Some guns are more sensitive and need a little more weight to function properly. I have noticed guns in aluminum chassis need a little more weight. I think it's the vibration from the solid mounting. Kidd tries to put a little blue Loc-tite on the adjustment but it still backs out on its own sometimes. It's really tiny little adjustment and would be hard to get it to lock and not gum up the spring and pin with the thread locker. You have to watch close to see if you are actually turning the adjustment because there is no feel to it. The size for the adjuster listed in the instruction may not be correct but just figure it out and use the right size. Again there is just no feel to the adjustment, you have to watch carefully.

[RickT]

I can change the TPW easily enough.  Is the underlying assumption that the excessively light trigger pull isn't producing a trigger reset.  Worth a try despite having this issue with two different triggers.

[ShredderTactical]

Sometimes troubleshooting, isolating, then fixing problems with a 10/22 takes patience and determination. A few suggestions below:
1. Document your problem(s) and your process. Document...each and every step, so you can keep track of what you have tried and what the configuration was when you tried it. If you don't do this you can end up chasing your problem(s) in circles. Ask me how I know
2. Make only one change at a time and then verify results with live fire testing. Otherwise...see above about chasing your problem(s) in circles.
3. If it's a single stage Kidd trigger, try increasing the trigger pull weight as suggested by Gregg K above. Recently had a similar problem with a single stage Kidd trigger and increasing the pull weight about 8oz cured the trigger reset issue. Helps if you have a good trigger pull tester to measure the weight before and after.
4. It does sound like a strange coincidence that there is a reset problem with the Kidd trigger, since you swapped it out and the other trigger is doing the same thing. However, I wouldn't use that result to make any hard conclusions about what is going on.
5. I hate it when I hear somebody who says they bought their 10/22 from some big box store 20 years ago...never cleaned it...and it runs 100% every time they shoot it. I have built a few from high end custom parts and it's not uncommon to have problems that can take months to get sorted out before ending up with a gun that I would call highly reliable and ready for Steel Challenge competition.
6. Good luck and keep us posted!

[RickT]

Appreciate all the help.  Up until the great ammo shortage these guns have been run hard: 2 practices/week, weekly/monthly matches as available and cleaned after every match.  My further testing will have to wait until Wednesday: high wind warnings turn our club's range into a dust storm.  After 35+ years designing avionics for fighters I'm all over process; these are my wife's guns so I often don't get started with a lot of data: comes with the territory.  Generally, the rifles have been very reliable although ammo selection in winter can be interesting.

[Gregg K]

I forgot to mention that it's worth checking to make sure that the hammer strut is not contacting the stock. I had one gun that I had to relieve the stock to keep the hammer strut from contacting when cycled. Just take the gun out of the stock and check if the strut will protrude past the trigger housing, some do and some don't.

[Gregg K]

And the rest of the story is???

[RickT]

It's on the way to Kidd.  Swapped everything possible and the issue moved with the bolt.  The bolt is in perfect order including new extractor/spring (installed after the problem started) and a new firing pin string.  The strut doesn't contact the stock; the Blackhawk axiom stocks have a big cavity at that location.   Kidd will get the gun back to us in working order.  As an aside the one trigger that would not adjust, stuck at about 2.5 lbs, is on it's way back with the action.  All the triggers I tried produced the same issue so not a trigger problem.  I'll post what Kidd finds.

[Gregg K]

Is the bolt and receiver a Kidd? I'm surprised that Kidd will look at it unless it is all his components.

[RickT]

16 hours ago, Gregg K said:

Is the bolt and receiver a Kidd? I'm surprised that Kidd will look at it unless it is all his components.

All components are Kidd.  Kidd sells both slick-side and crosshatched bolts.

[RickT]

Update: Received rifle back from Kidd.  Went to the range yesterday and experienced exactly the same issue: Couldn't get through a mag (any mag) without an ignition failure regardless of ammo type.  The chambered round has no firing pin mark and yet the trigger feels the same even for these failed ignition events.  I'll pass on what Kidd has to say,  but I can't imagine their QC wouldn't have experienced this issue which was well described in the notes I provided.

[nso123]

Have you checked for the off chance that the face of your barrel may have a ding in it that is keeping the occasional round from firing?  Also, any chance that the firing pin is dragging in the channel?

[RickT]

4 hours ago, nso123 said:

Have you checked for the off chance that the face of your barrel may have a ding in it that is keeping the occasional round from firing?  Also, any chance that the firing pin is dragging in the channel?

There isn't even a light primer strike on the rounds that fail to fire.  This after Kidd went through the gun.  I'm baffled that they didn't experience the issue.  We took the rifle to the range today and experienced this failure twice. The trigger feels fine during this failure cycle; it does reset, or feels as though it reset.  It's bizarre that the failure is associated with the bolt and yet I'm positive the firing pin/FP channel were cleaned and the FP spring is in good shape.  All I can do is send the rifle back.  I wish I had a spare bolt, but I know from my original diagnostic work this same rifle works just fine with the bolt out of our other rifle.

Edited May 24, 2022 by RickT

[Gregg K]

I'm confused now. Originally you said the trigger was not resetting. It sounds like now you are saying that it resets and the hammer drops but doesn't drive the firing pin to the cartridge. This seems a lot different than the original problem. Same result, the gun doesn't fire when you want it to but sounds a lot different than the first issue.

[pyrrhic3gun]

Yes it sounds like the diagnosis has changed.  Here's my question... Have you checked the orientation of the firing pin return spring in the bolt?

Here is Kidd's installation Note:

This compression spring is directional in nature due to one end being conical.  When installing the spring be sure to keep the larger end of the spring toward the bolt face and the smaller end (conical) towards the rear.

I've seen a number of threads that indicate this is a cause of misfires.

 

[RickT]

Yes, it's installed correctly although I don't want to re-examine prior to sending it back to Kidd.   I'm surprise Kidd couldn't duplicate the problem.  Today I slow-fired the barreled action without the stock so I could see the hammer strut.  The trigger is being reset even in the case of an ignition failure.

[JBingheim]

Has there been any update to this? Mine just started doing this after installing the Kidd trigger kit. I couldn't make it more than 3-4 shots without this same failure. Just installed the kit and the whole rifle was cleaned-as I also do after every match-and magazines were recently cleaned. Tried it with my son's BX-25 magazine as that very rarely gets used, probably less than a few hundred rounds, and the same thing happens. I swapped out the return spring behind the trigger for a heavier one and it still doesn't make it more than a few rounds. The trigger seems to reset but it doesn't "feel" like it resets. I've had light return springs before and even when that happens you can pull the trigger forward to reset it. That's not the case here, though. It's like the trigger just dies-it can't even be pulled forward to reset. It's a strange malfunction and I have disassembled/reassembled and verified parts.

[309jdj]

I had a friend that started having this intermittent trigger reset problem after taking the trigger group apart and cleaning it and reassembling it. They brought it over to me to look and see if I could help. Ended up that they had gotten the sear spring and the trigger return spring swapped around when putting it back together. It was a Ruger trigger group with a KIDD trigger kit in it. Would be worth looking into at least.......

[JBingheim]

I appreciate your help and I'll check it out just to be EXTRA sure, however when I installed the Kidd kit I did not change the return spring. The plunger and spring stayed together the whole time. I have the plunger inserted in the smaller opening side of the return spring so they don't come apart unless I pull them apart. Plus I haven't taken apart the disconnector/trigger/sear, I dropped it right in with the temporary pin.

 

I did find some info about the hammer strut possibly getting pressed up against the stock/chassis (due to the hammer sitting slightly further back in the trigger housing compared to OEM) when the hammer is cocked. Basically pushing the strut a little further outside of the relief hole on the back of the housing. I'm going to check this out tonight but not sure when I could actually test it via cycling with ammo. Will update as soon as I can actually fire test this theory.

[Gregg K]

If you don't find anything with the hammer strut hitting the chassis you can try backing out the screw for the disconnector adjustment 1/4 to 1/2 turn to see if it changes anything. I had one that was too tight and not resetting once. You can access the screw through the hole in the trigger if it is all assembled.

[WildPete]

On 4/3/2022 at 11:47 PM, Gregg K said:

I forgot to mention that it's worth checking to make sure that the hammer strut is not contacting the stock. I had one gun that I had to relieve the stock to keep the hammer strut from contacting when cycled. Just take the gun out of the stock and check if the strut will protrude past the trigger housing, some do and some don't.

 

Hammer strut malfunctions can sometimes be fun. But yeah, check the strut or give the guys at Kidd a call. They helped me when my Kidd would go into automatic mode.