Anyone know the delay time on different timers between the actual button push and beep?

[motosapiens]

24 minutes ago, Johnny_Chimpo said:

 

Or you can go into the menu and enable auto start, which resets the timer every time you hit start eliminating the need to even use the reset button.

or you can use a timer that doesn’t suck, and then show the time to everyone nearby.

[ddc]

3 hours ago, adrone said:

Its a very small minority who do that but it happens.  Usually to whoever that particular RO thinks he is competing with.  

 

 I guess I'm lucky. I've never run into anybody who'd pull that kinda sh!t.

[Johnny_Chimpo]

7 hours ago, motosapiens said:

or you can use a timer that doesn’t suck, and then show the time to everyone nearby.

 

Anything sucks if you don't know how it works

Edited March 31, 2022 by Johnny_Chimpo

[Thomas H]

On 3/29/2022 at 8:38 PM, adrone said:

Asking due to a problem at a match. Im wearing double amps. In ear and muffs both with amp. I can hear the timer button being pushed. Clearly. Every time.

I got a procedural. Argued it. Became a problem at a match where me and the Ro's perception differed. Later Ive learned it would be the beep not the button push. Which could get grey and depend on the listener.

Does anyone know what the actual delay on some of the common timers we use are between press and beep? Also the duration of the beep?

 

On 3/29/2022 at 8:47 PM, BJB said:

The beep should be instant.  The beep duration is 0.20 seconds.

 

I guess my question would be, why are you reacting to a button push?  You would never have heard, from anyone, that "button push" is the start signal.  You would, however, have heard from numerous people about "the beep".    Especially since you seem to have been a member of USPSA since 2017 and have shot plenty of matches in Open division with classifiers since 2018.

 

Why are you asking whether or not the "button push" is important?

 

As for the beep being "grey and depend on the listener" -- that makes no sense.  It is a sound, exactly like the "button push" is a sound.  The sound either happens or it does not.  It is not a grey area, nor does it depend on the listener (unless, of course, the listener is deaf and we have alternate start signals for that).

 

Mild correction to BJB:  The standard beep duration is 0.30 seconds.

 

As people have said, the delay on common timers depends on the timer.  And is irrelevant to the start signal.

 

 

 

 

[vluc]

11 hours ago, waktasz said:

 

What I'm saying is hitting the reset button on these timers doesn't actually do anything. It just readies the timer for the next time you want to hit start. All the stuff is still in there. I probably hit reset about 20 times between shooters because I don't want to get to the point where I go to hit start and the button doesn't work because the reset button hasn't been hit yet. It's just a quirk of the CED 7000

And I thought I was the only one who constantly presses' the reset as I wait for the shooter through "make ready"

[Thomas H]

3 hours ago, vluc said:

And I thought I was the only one who constantly presses' the reset as I wait for the shooter through "make ready"

 

I'm betting there are probably a bunch of us. 

[MikeBurgess]

Fun Fact,

 

In high level track events the starting blocks have sensors in them that can signal a false start by sensing the runner pushing off, the false start is triggered till 0.1 seconds AFTER the gun goes off, this is because it takes more than that about of time to react to the start signal, so if they are pushing off at 0.09 seconds after the gun they started that action before the gun. 

 

so using this information (thats good enough for the olympics) if your moving before the beep its not perception your starting to act well in advance of the beep.

[vluc]

22 hours ago, Thomas H said:

 

I'm betting there are probably a bunch of us. 

 

LOL, it's second nature with that timer.  While I have both a CED7K and the AMG, I grab the CED first.  I like the Commander (sold a backup CED to fund it) but I don't think the linking to Practiscore is all that big a deal.

[waktasz]

Bluetooth sync is awesome actually. It captures more than just the final time. If you have the Practiscore Competitor app you can compare splits for every shot 

[adrone]

On 3/31/2022 at 9:20 AM, Thomas H said:

 

 

I guess my question would be, why are you reacting to a button push?  You would never have heard, from anyone, that "button push" is the start signal.  You would, however, have heard from numerous people about "the beep".    Especially since you seem to have been a member of USPSA since 2017 and have shot plenty of matches in Open division with classifiers since 2018.

 

Why are you asking whether or not the "button push" is important?

 

As for the beep being "grey and depend on the listener" -- that makes no sense.  It is a sound, exactly like the "button push" is a sound.  The sound either happens or it does not.  It is not a grey area, nor does it depend on the listener (unless, of course, the listener is deaf and we have alternate start signals for that).

 

Mild correction to BJB:  The standard beep duration is 0.30 seconds.

 

As people have said, the delay on common timers depends on the timer.  And is irrelevant to the start signal.

 

 

 

 

Im not asking whether the button push is important.  As I stated in my post that I understand its the beep and not the button push that means start. And yes it could be grey Ill say again with regard to the beep . If the RO or someone else slowly processes the beep in their brain…..If the shooter reacts to a beep faster than an RO’s brain can process and perceive the start of the beep along with observing the shooter then that could be a “grey” area where a mistake could be made. If one reads about reaction times to both visual and audible signals in any sport there are large differences between peoples processing times. Large enough to equal a Uspsa split even. 
It happens so little it doesnt matter but for the sake of argument there is room for an error. 
This issue has only happened to me once since I started shooting so.
Interesting though that  its .30 on duration. Thats a long time. I have an old pact timer that sounds longer than that even. 

Heavy amps are a curse. Ive since turned them off.  You hear too much…..it is distracting and makes you wanna jump when you know the button has been pushed. 
 

But yes i am curious as to how long a timer takes to beep after button same as I was on beep duration.
On this old Pact it sounds like .10 ish.  between push and beep. On another its faster. 

Edited April 1, 2022 by adrone

[adrone]

On 3/31/2022 at 9:20 AM, Thomas H said:

 

 

I guess my question would be, why are you reacting to a button push?  You would never have heard, from anyone, that "button push" is the start signal.  You would, however, have heard from numerous people about "the beep".    Especially since you seem to have been a member of USPSA since 2017 and have shot plenty of matches in Open division with classifiers since 2018.

 

Why are you asking whether or not the "button push" is important?

 

As for the beep being "grey and depend on the listener" -- that makes no sense.  It is a sound, exactly like the "button push" is a sound.  The sound either happens or it does not.  It is not a grey area, nor does it depend on the listener (unless, of course, the listener is deaf and we have alternate start signals for that).

 

Mild correction to BJB:  The standard beep duration is 0.30 seconds.

 

As people have said, the delay on common timers depends on the timer.  And is irrelevant to the start signal.

 

 

 

 

Just as everyone’s draw times can be  different the same applies to audible  and visual processing times and perceptions of those times. 

[Thomas H]

On 4/1/2022 at 3:50 PM, adrone said:

And yes it could be grey Ill say again with regard to the beep . If the RO or someone else slowly processes the beep in their brain…..If the shooter reacts to a beep faster than an RO’s brain can process and perceive the start of the beep along with observing the shooter then that could be a “grey” area where a mistake could be made. If one reads about reaction times to both visual and audible signals in any sport there are large differences between peoples processing times. Large enough to equal a Uspsa split even.

 

The part in bold makes little sense when the person creating the start signal is the person who would be calling the false start. 

 

They literally created the start signal.  There's no grey area.  The difference between the button push and the start signal in terms of time is no small that you literally wouldn't be able to tell it.  I realize that you say you can hear the button press, but....quite frankly, I'm doubting that what you are hearing is the button press of the actual start signal.  As people have said, on a CED a button is pressed to reset, and another is pressed for the start signal--and the start happens immediately, not after a gap of time.

 

About the only timer I know where the press and the start signal are different are PACT timers, which have release activations.  Pushing them doesn't activate the start signal, releasing the button activates the start signal.  You can push the button down and hold it, and nothing happens.  (Most ROs using them hold the button down while giving the last range commands before the start signal.) The signal happens on the release.  (And those buttons don't "click" when you press them down, so that can't be what you are talking about.). If you are mistakenly thinking that the button press on a PACT timer has a delay before the beep, that's not what happens.

 

"Just as everyone’s draw times can be  different the same applies to audible  and visual processing times and perceptions of those times.  "

 

Which has absolutely zero to do with any "grey area" regarding the RO who literally created the start signal not knowing when the start signal occurred.

 

 

[Johnny_Chimpo]

On 4/4/2022 at 4:42 PM, Thomas H said:

on a CED a button is pressed to reset, and another is pressed for the start signal

 

Dead easy to change it so it works without the reset.  And once changed, it will stay that way until you change it back.

[Thomas H]

6 hours ago, Johnny_Chimpo said:

 

Dead easy to change it so it works without the reset.  And once changed, it will stay that way until you change it back.

 

True.  Most haven't, though, so most people use it the other way.  And it isn't like it makes any difference to the start signal itself.