Live fire returns

[McTrigger]

Looking to hear which live fire drills brought the best return for overall improvement. Is there any drills that you always return to? Or which ones did you find really made you improve as a uspsa/ipsc shooter? 

[CClassForLife]

What are you using as your cost of investment? Number of rounds, amount of time, number of reps, or something else?

 

Also, how do you define overall improvement? Drill times, match average, classification, or something else?

[McTrigger]

More of a open question. You are correct. A guy that can shoot a skid of ammo likely has a different opinion than 100 rounds a week. I’m looking for a handful of drills that shooters really seen personal improvement or that stood/stand out. Draw, accuracy or reloads. The classics like the bill drill always seem to mentioned but perhaps there are a few lesser known. As for overall improvement I suppose again different for divisions and classes but am open to hearing them all as they likely cross over. 
 

I personally am a new shooter. Dry fire for 20-30 mins 4 times a week. Winter provides a indoor match once a week and spring will have two. Practice roughly 200 rounds a week plus the 60-70 we shoot at the local League. 
 

im trying to maximize my live fire practice time and some drills that always stay in the loop for

you guys are ones that likely will improve me. Or drills that people have worked on for some time To master are worth my attention  to try and see how it potentially can improve me. 

 As components become more expensive and harder to find id like to maximize my few hundred rounds a week. I have Stogers dry fire drills and conform my times with live ammo but I’m interested to hear some First hand accounts of particular live fire drills that you guys felt like really built some Skills or showed faults. 

 

 

[Johnny_Chimpo]

1 hour ago, McTrigger said:

Looking to hear which live fire drills brought the best return for overall improvement. Is there any drills that you always return to? Or which ones did you find really made you improve as a uspsa/ipsc shooter? 

 

Drills are tools to fix problems.  What are your problems.

 

[McTrigger]

15 minutes ago, Johnny_Chimpo said:

 

Drills are tools to fix problems.  What are your problems.

 

Certainly a few. The worst I’ve noticed is not maintaining  proper grip and lock up after reloads. Left elbow gets chicken wingy. But overall I can improve on everything. Figured there would be a hand full of drills that folks always return to or had found to really highlight faults. There are a million drills out there. I try to research ones that are mentioned often and give them a whirl but 20-30 rounds on drills here and there help but if there are ones that had really stood out or seems

to provide something more. It’s possible it applies to more people than just yourself. Perhaps. Or perhaps I’m nuts and have to figure out where i suck the most. And maximize my efforts on that. 
 

looking back on this I should mention I shoot production optics. 
 

everyone has there own weakness so it’s pretty dang dynamic but I’m hoping there are a few other drills outside of el prez and bill that have helped more so,  or are frequently used. Then I can focus on some of those and layout weekly plan. as a post Covid, world war brink,  reloading component shortage, smish smortion has put a damper on the throw the ammo down range and see where it leads me. Kinda sorta of a thing. 

[CClassForLife]

Do you have footage of your matches or practice?

[McTrigger]

4 minutes ago, CClassForLife said:

Do you have footage of your matches or practice?

Negative, I do not 

[CClassForLife]

Since you shoot IPSC in Canada and limited to 10 rounds, your reloads are super crucial. I'd think the drill that would give you the most bang for your buck is "Track the A Zone" by Hwansik Kim with a slight modification. I would just throw a reload somewhere during the string of fire.

 

https://www.practicalshootingtraininggroup.com/track-the-a-zone/

[McTrigger]

21 hours ago, CClassForLife said:

Since you shoot IPSC in Canada and limited to 10 rounds, your reloads are super crucial. I'd think the drill that would give you the most bang for your buck is "Track the A Zone" by Hwansik Kim with a slight modification. I would just throw a reload somewhere during the string of fire.

 

https://www.practicalshootingtraininggroup.com/track-the-a-zone/

Good to know I certainly will try this. 

[rpm8300]

Great point made about identifying problems as a starting point to plan training sessions.  Another starting point can be trends over a few local and at least 1 major match.  Here are some metrics:

-Where are you losing the most percentage points on the group that you have identified as relevant (not always people in your class)?

-Are you on pace for stages?  If not, look at the video (also brought up) to see where you are losing time.  Common areas given you are running the same stage plan are efficiency of moving in and out of positions, hard engagements and longer steel.

-Are you on pace but down hit points?  Whats your A to non-A ratio on speed stages, long stages, etc? 

-How many penalty points do you have per match as a ratio of the overall available points?  

 

These are things I look at when building my training plans.  I would highly recommend that you go in to each training session with a specific goal or target that is measurable.  Hope this helps.

[looking4reloadingdeals]

One drill I always come back to is “designated target” by Ben Stoeger. I usually one piece of steel as my designated target, and 3 other targets at varying distances. I have my designated target one far side of the range and then targets spread all the way to the other side of the range, usually about a 120° angle between the farthest targets. Start with shooting the steel, then the first paper, then stew, second paper, steel, third paper, and finish on steel. This works transitions, throttle control, and accuracy for me (I usually use a mini popper at ~15 yards for designated target). I also get feedback from everyone I practice with that it is one their favorite drills also. 

[McTrigger]

13 hours ago, looking4reloadingdeals said:

One drill I always come back to is “designated target” by Ben Stoeger. I usually one piece of steel as my designated target, and 3 other targets at varying distances. I have my designated target one far side of the range and then targets spread all the way to the other side of the range, usually about a 120° angle between the farthest targets. Start with shooting the steel, then the first paper, then stew, second paper, steel, third paper, and finish on steel. This works transitions, throttle control, and accuracy for me (I usually use a mini popper at ~15 yards for designated target). I also get feedback from everyone I practice with that it is one their favorite drills also. 

That really sounds like a solid drill right there. 

[rowdyb]

Anything with place to place and target to target. What you can do with 3 or 4 target stands and two cones or boxes is amazing.

[fyaman43]

1 hour ago, rowdyb said:

Anything with place to place and target to target. What you can do with 3 or 4 target stands and two cones or boxes is amazing.

 

This.  One awesome, simple drill (IMO) is the Blake Drill (draw, 2 rds on 3 spaced targets).  Easy to scale, measure improvement (or decline), and highly applicable.  Gives you a draw time, shot splits, transition splits.  Lots of useful data there.  Can also throw in a reload and run it again in reverse, etc.  Goal, among other things, is to have transition splits equal shot splits.  https://www.benstoeger.com/live-fire-drill-blake-drill

 

Even just two rounds on 2 or 3 spaced targets, move to a different position and reengage those same targets is one I do regularly.  Play around with the spacing and distance to add or subtract difficulty.  

 

 

[BBolden]

On 3/27/2022 at 10:01 PM, Johnny_Chimpo said:

 

Drills are tools to fix problems.  What are your problems.

 

Such solid advice. I tend to only do live fire practice once a month due to ammo constraints and since adopting this mindset very recently, my dry fire practice yields far better results. Rather than working the drills just because, I’m able to set a tangible goal and work it until I commit it to subconscious and improve the problem. 
THEN I may even setup a more realistic drill with full size targets that works that certain skill on the range and STILL dry fire it for a while before live firing it.

[maur]

Simple box to box drills. Set up 2 sticks 8 yards or so apart. Then two targets on either side. Start in the middle, on buzzer draw and cross one stick and efficiently engage the target (gun up and ready, firing as soon as youre in the shooting area etc) then as soon as you get your four shots off, book it to the other side and do the same. Vary having no shoots on one target per side so you can hard entry or hard exit, or both. Focus on starting to leave the position the second your last shot goes off, and firing a shot the second your back foot lifts off the ground and youre considered in the shooting area. 

 

Literally do this a ton and it will translate into your shooting. I did this 3x a week live fire during the entire summer of covid and its the most ive improved in a few months.