Delayed DQ for 180 violation

[IL-SIG]

Negligence = failure to take proper care in doing something. 
 

When a person fires their firearm when they don’t intend to do so, that is failing to take proper care and thus, negligent. 

[ltdmstr]

11 minutes ago, IL-SIG said:

When a person fires their firearm when they don’t intend to do so, that is failing to take proper care and thus, negligent. 

 

Sorry, but you're wrong.  And that's exactly why the terms aren't interchangeable.  There are plenty of ways to have an AD with no negligence involved.  You can also add the fact that the USPSA rule book doesn't use the term ND anywhere.

[ChuckS]

Note: The ND/AD debate stops now....

[ima45dv8]

3 hours ago, ChuckS said:

Note: The ND/AD debate stops now....

That's right. Waaaayyy off-topic.

 

Maybe worthy of one of y'all starting a new thread on it?  

[mikeg1005]

On 3/20/2022 at 12:32 PM, PoorMansOpen said:

I could have DQ'ed at least four other shooters on that stage if I was RO'ing, one for a 180 (was clearly acknowledged by the other RO who was running him) and the other three for fingers on the rigger while moving or reloading. Plus one shooter (granted he was new) broke the 180 on the previous stage

 

You really need to lose this attitude ASAP.  You either DQ someone because they clearly broke the rules or you don't because they didn't... no "I think" or "I could have". 

 

Don't let new shooters slide on arguably the most important safety rule.  That's how people get killed. 

 

[usmc1974]

I really don't have a dog in this, but anytime I'm RO/running the timer,  I call out loud and clear as soon as the infraction happens, and I stop the shooter( USCHH).  To do otherwise, or let the shooter keep shooting, is negligent on the part of the RO. JMHO.

[Alleycatdad]

There is a TON of really good feedback and advice in this thread.  

 

What you do with it is up to you.

 

Steve

[pskys2]

On 3/20/2022 at 1:41 PM, JWBaldree said:

Can one call a slightly delayed DQ? Yes; sometimes the shooter doesn't here the word STOP, sometimes the RO may feel that 'shocking' the shooter might make him do something even more egregious, and sometimes the RO needs a second or two to process the violation to be certain of it, and by then the shooter has completed the COF. IMO, however, the DQ had better be issued before the Range is Clear command.

 

Now for the part you aren't going to like.As MD's you and your dad are setting the tone for the match. From the quality of the stages to the admin and stats process to the quality and consistency of the ROing. From your OP, it sounds like you have been equally inconsistent in applying the rules, and got a little upset because that inconsistency didn't work out for you. The biggest headache you'll have going forward is fixing your club's RO problems without making it look personal. Having shot at many clubs in many states, plus sectional, state, area and national matches, I can guarantee you that competitors value consistent, fair and accurate officiating. I can also guarantee you that the biggest club killer is being seen as lax on safety rules or club nepotism with regard to calls.

 

Does your club have certified ROs or CROs that have kept current and that are respected? If not, do they have uncertified people that know the rules, and are respected for fair application of said rules? Because these people are going to make up your new ROing committee that is going to fix your problem over the next few matches. You should be working on getting the whole club up to speed with regards to the proper range commands, the responsibilities of both ROs (the guy on the timer and the guy running the tablet, both are ROs and have areas of responsibilities for the COF), and your expectations for how the match is going to be run going forward. Plus you'll have the added challenge of doing this without making it seem like sour grapes.

Very good response, I'd add sometimes it's wise to confer with the 2nd RO, or they tell you what they saw.  But if one is not 100% sure you saw a violation, don't call it and don't let yourself be swayed into it.

Sounds like hosting an NROI RO Seminar would be a wise move.  If you're part of a larger Gun Club, talk to them about subsidizing the seminar, partial or whole payment of club members.  I did this years ago and my main selling point was to point out how the attention to safety details NROI gives is beneficial to the club as a whole.  It has ramifications and results that far out reach any particular discipline.

[obsessiveshooter]

This thread will get a lot of people piling on who missed the fact that you are 16.  Great job stepping up to help run a match! And its great you are here seeking advice and trying to learn. We've all made mistakes, often even after becoming certified ROs.  You've gotten some great advice here.  I've seen new clubs have a culture of reluctance to call a DQ unless something scary happens. The problem is, we push things right up to the edge of the rules in sports.  We don't want people getting hurt or worse, so the rules need to set barriers well ahead of simply "don't actually shoot someone or yourself".  

But again, good for you on your efforts.  When I was 16, I would have been way to intimidated to try to RO adults.