Blood lead level

[yekcoh]

In 2020, I was at 4

 

Dec 21’, I’m at 11. 
 

I shoot outdoor, 
load coated bullets, that leave shavings during seating, doesnt seem to affect accuracy. 

, Pick up brass with gloves on. 
 

Not sure what I have to do.. 
Im getting joint pain. 

I should go get tested again…

[TheChewycookie]

Before you get into the car, before you eat, are you removing lead with wipes or heavy metal removing soap with cold water? Have you been touching your face a bunch after handling anything firearms related? Do you wipe down the surfaces you touch, car door handles, steering wheel, gear selector, etc.? Do you sniff the smoke coming out of your barrel?

Anything you do that allows entry into your body will contribute to increasing lead levels in your body. That's anything from your nostrils, mouth, ears, and even sweat glands all over your body. It's literally like how a disease enters your body.

 

If you're getting shavings when seating, you probably need to expand your case mouths more to prevent exposing lead, reducing the chance of direct contact. It will likely help if you use gloves while loading ammo. Nitrile, latex, whatever else that's flexible but provides protection from direct contact.

[Edwards30]

Hey Joon,

I tested at 9 earlier this year and started taking more precautions.  I do much of the same as you, but here is what I added:

I wear gloves while loading, I also wear an N95 while I process my brass.  Aside from that I use De lead wipes after matches before I get back in the car, you're welcome to use them next time we shoot together.

Check this out too:

-Bryce

[anonymouscuban]

I will start by saying your level is not high and certainly not enough to cause symptoms. I had my level tested at the end of December and was terrified when I saw the result. Then my doctor talked me off the ledge.

 

The <5 mcg/dL that is often stated as “normal” is within the context of the average person that shouldn’t have any exposure to lead. Higher levels for someone like that is a concern because it would indicate that you’re unknowingly exposed to lead somehow.

 

My doctor was not happy about my levels but she wasn’t overly concerned. She sent me OSHA and other industrial information on lead exposure and the acceptable levels are like 40 mcg/dL if memory serves. 
 

I have since stopped dry tumbling which is where I suspect most of my exposure came from. I was very complacent about my brass prep handling. I now wet tumble all my brass and I wear a respirator and gloves when sorting dirty brass. I also keep lead wipes in my range bag and bench and clean my hands before getting in my truck or immediately after reloading/cleaning my guns. 
 

I will test again in July to see if my levels have come down. 

Edited March 15, 2022 by anonymouscuban

[Sniperboy]

Keep in mind this tidbit.  When I first had my levels tested in what, 2008 an acceptable level was 11, and when I got it done again in 2016 acceptable level was 5.  When I started asking questions I got the nurse/doctor to admit that this number is based on a statistical average.  In other words arbitrary.  Long story short.. don't lose your mind.

 

Anecdotally I don't think you need to take medication until you reach 50.  The joint pain you are feeling may be psychosomatic.

 

Take small but conscious steps and every little bit helps.  Wear a respirator when you shoot indoors or enclosures located outdoors with out good circulation (I wore it before the Covid fad and everyone got tired of making fun of me.. now its totally normal, jeez).  Wear gloves when reloading, shoot and load FMJ.  Wet tumble your brass.  Small steps that add up. 

 

You're going to live...  if not then, dibs on your guns.

[Dirty_J]

Anything below a 20 is no cause for concern if you know how you’re being exposed.  
 

Mitigate how you can. Add some supplements to your diet. Lots of green leafies and keep on keepin on. 

[yekcoh]

Thank you all for the inputs. Thanks Bryce.

 

I'm a bit a of hypochondriac so these things bother me a lot even though there is negligible impact. 

I will get lead tested tomorrow to see where I see where I am at. I hope it's lower than 11.

Here is what I will implement into my routine:

 

0. Get de lead wipes and wipe down my car regularly; the car collects a lot of range dirt.

1. wear mask during reloading; I already wear gloves.

2. wear mask during picking brass.

3. take additional chlorella/spirulla (I've been taking seldomly) but will regularly take larger amounts

4. Clean reloading area frequently

5. Get de lead soap for home use.

 

Lastly, I was aware that lead can enter body through pores. I ignored that idea thinking it's a myth so I always washed hands with warm water. Warm water = better cleaning.

But I will change that routine too..

[MemphisMechanic]

Lead primarily enters the body via breathing in the dust while shooting, handling brass, or loading. Following that, it’s from being absorbed through the mucus membranes (wiping eyes or mouth) … and then to a much lesser extent, through the skin itself.

 

The best thing you can do is to do all of your brass processing outdoors in an N95 mask, or switch to wet tumbling while wearing gloves.

 

If the dust produced by a vibratory tumbler and separator is left outdoors, then it isn’t left as a fine layer of dust on every surface in the garage.

 

You might be careful to wear a mask and avoid touching your face as you process the brass and load, but that won’t be the case when you’re out there wrenching on your car next week.  
 

Edited March 16, 2022 by MemphisMechanic

[TheChewycookie]

11 hours ago, yekcoh said:

Lastly, I was aware that lead can enter body through pores. I ignored that idea thinking it's a myth so I always washed hands with warm water. Warm water = better cleaning.

It's just when you've handled ammo components that cold water is better to keep the pores closed while using a metal removing soap. Afterwards warm water is fine for regular handwashing.

[MikeyScuba]

https://www.ergo-log.com/mcp-protects-against-uranium.html

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/18616067/

 

At least there is some science behind it.

 

Quote

MCP
MCP contains sugar chains that can form complexes with heavy metals in the body. The body then excretes these complexes through urine or faeces, reducing the concentration of heavy metals.

 

In an experiment in which subjects took MCP for 6 days, their bodies got rid of 150 percent more cadmium and 560 percent more lead through their urine on day 6. [Phytother Res. 2006 Oct;20(10):859-64.] In another human study, supplementation with MCP stimulated mercury excretion. [Clin Toxicol (Phila). Jun-Aug 2007;45(5):476-81.]

https://www.amazon.com/PectaSol-Modified-Super-Nutrient-Support-Cellular/dp/B0027VT510?ref_=ast_sto_dp&th=1&psc=1

[yekcoh]

10 hours ago, MikeyScuba said:

https://www.ergo-log.com/mcp-protects-against-uranium.html

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/18616067/

 

At least there is some science behind it.

 

https://www.amazon.com/PectaSol-Modified-Super-Nutrient-Support-Cellular/dp/B0027VT510?ref_=ast_sto_dp&th=1&psc=1

Oooooh. Looks like good stuff. Pricey. Added to routine

[CHA-LEE]

I always find these Lead Level threads interesting. When I started shooting in 2008 I did a LOT of indoors shooting at a range with very poor ventilation and my lead level got up to 9. I stopped going to that range and eventually my lead level dropped to 4. I get my lead level checked every year and it has regularly been in the 3 - 4 range. I shoot every weekend, practice a bunch, and reload a bunch. Before the Ammo Crunch I was usually shooting 30K - 40K a year and reloading all of it. I don't do any special lead mitigation like masks or gloves while reloading or cleaning brass. But I do religiously wash my hands and keep my "Range Close" separate from everything else. I also make it a point to NOT use ammo loads that are super smoky.

 

I think the smokey ammo situation is a much bigger contributor than people give it credit. The OP stated that the coating gets scraped off when reloading. Exposed lead on the bullet is much more likely to vaporize than not being exposed. I have also seen several shooters have the "Lead Swirls/Tails" on their close target hits which proves that the lead is melting and vaporizing when they shoot. Most FMJ bullets have exposed lead bases as well.

 

I always wonder what others are doing so differently to cause their lead levels to go crazy. But I suspect a lot of it has to do with their poor quality ammo that is pumping a crap ton of vaporized lead in the air right in front of their face while they shoot.

[lgh]

10 hours ago, CHA-LEE said:

I always wonder what others are doing so differently to cause their lead levels to go crazy

Me too. My lead levels have never been elevated. I don't shoot as much as you but have regularly shot at indoor ranges, some with sub optimal ventilation. I don't wear gloves or masks while reloading but religously wash my hands. Coatings do not (apparently) scrape off my bullets. I do tumble brass outside but never have worn a mask. Might not be a bad idea. Just watch how much dust blows downwind when you tumble outside.

[yekcoh]

On 3/18/2022 at 5:38 PM, CHA-LEE said:

I always find these Lead Level threads interesting. When I started shooting in 2008 I did a LOT of indoors shooting at a range with very poor ventilation and my lead level got up to 9. I stopped going to that range and eventually my lead level dropped to 4. I get my lead level checked every year and it has regularly been in the 3 - 4 range. I shoot every weekend, practice a bunch, and reload a bunch. Before the Ammo Crunch I was usually shooting 30K - 40K a year and reloading all of it. I don't do any special lead mitigation like masks or gloves while reloading or cleaning brass. But I do religiously wash my hands and keep my "Range Close" separate from everything else. I also make it a point to NOT use ammo loads that are super smoky.

 

I think the smokey ammo situation is a much bigger contributor than people give it credit. The OP stated that the coating gets scraped off when reloading. Exposed lead on the bullet is much more likely to vaporize than not being exposed. I have also seen several shooters have the "Lead Swirls/Tails" on their close target hits which proves that the lead is melting and vaporizing when they shoot. Most FMJ bullets have exposed lead bases as well.

 

I always wonder what others are doing so differently to cause their lead levels to go crazy. But I suspect a lot of it has to do with their poor quality ammo that is pumping a crap ton of vaporized lead in the air right in front of their face while they shoot.

Charlie, I think you are spot on. 
 

my lead level was below 5 until I started shooting coated bullets. I started belling my case more to get less shaving; I get about 2 shaved bullet every 50 rounds now. 
 

I now clean my hands religiously. 
 

I’m now very conscious of the gun smoke and I even walk away from where I shoot just to get fresh air. 

 

But the biggest contributor, I also think is the bullet… 

 

This is very unfortunate because I’m shooting my sponsors bullet. I will probably start shooting more copper plated. 
 

Anyhow, the result came back and it’s 7 so I’m happy with this progress. I’ll test again in 3 months to make sure the level is kept low. 

[CHA-LEE]

Bell the brass more so it doesn't shave the bullet. Also don't use a die that seats and crimps the brass at the same time. Seat the bullet in one die then crimp in the next die. There should still be a little bit of bell on the mouth of the case after the bullet is seated and before it is crimped. When you crimp the brass should only be crimped back to straight. There SHOULDN'T be inward crimp on the mouth of the case for Semi Auto pistols. 

 

Also look into the powder you are using as some powders burn much hotter than others. For example, Tightgroup burns super hot and it will melt the coating along with the lead.

 

The first part is mechanical. You need a reloading process that NEVER shaves the coating off of the bullets. You should be able to knock out the bullet of a loaded round and the sides of the bullet should still have intact coating. There shouldn't be a significant crimping ring around the bullet which dents the side of the bullet. If there is you are using WAY too much crimp.

 

The second part is thermodynamics, You need to use a powder that burns cool enough that it doesn't melt the coating off so the lead will be exposed. The level of smokiness is a good indicator of using a powder that is too hot burning. The second is the barrel rifling getting fouled with melted coating or lead. For example, in my 40 Major loads I can shoot 5000 rounds and looking down the rifling shows very little carbon build up. I can run a bore snake through the barrel in one pass and it looks like it has never had a round shot through it.

 

If you do all of this and still can't get it figured out, then switch to JHP Jacketed bullets. Those are pretty monkey proof when it comes to reloading and powders you can use. They also don't have an exposed lead base. Yes they cost more, but that increased price is worth NOT screwing up your long term health.

[yekcoh]

On 3/20/2022 at 6:25 PM, CHA-LEE said:

Bell the brass more so it doesn't shave the bullet. Also don't use a die that seats and crimps the brass at the same time. Seat the bullet in one die then crimp in the next die. There should still be a little bit of bell on the mouth of the case after the bullet is seated and before it is crimped. When you crimp the brass should only be crimped back to straight. There SHOULDN'T be inward crimp on the mouth of the case for Semi Auto pistols. 

 

Also look into the powder you are using as some powders burn much hotter than others. For example, Tightgroup burns super hot and it will melt the coating along with the lead.

 

The first part is mechanical. You need a reloading process that NEVER shaves the coating off of the bullets. You should be able to knock out the bullet of a loaded round and the sides of the bullet should still have intact coating. There shouldn't be a significant crimping ring around the bullet which dents the side of the bullet. If there is you are using WAY too much crimp.

 

The second part is thermodynamics, You need to use a powder that burns cool enough that it doesn't melt the coating off so the lead will be exposed. The level of smokiness is a good indicator of using a powder that is too hot burning. The second is the barrel rifling getting fouled with melted coating or lead. For example, in my 40 Major loads I can shoot 5000 rounds and looking down the rifling shows very little carbon build up. I can run a bore snake through the barrel in one pass and it looks like it has never had a round shot through it.

 

If you do all of this and still can't get it figured out, then switch to JHP Jacketed bullets. Those are pretty monkey proof when it comes to reloading and powders you can use. They also don't have an exposed lead base. Yes they cost more, but that increased price is worth NOT screwing up your long term health.

thanks Charlie,

 

I was belling just enough so the bullet doesnt topple over as suggested by the press manufacturer, Dillon. 
 

But now I bell more aggressively so no shavings occur. 

My lead level is 7 currently and I’m hoping to see a lower lead level in the next 3 months and if that doesn’t work then I’ll switch out of coated. But for now, I think Im doing good
 

 

[yekcoh]

UPDATE!!!!

 

I recently loaded a bunch of ammo and feared was exposed again.

From 11 to 7 to 5 in 8 months, I'm on the right track. 

 

They still flagged it HIGH as the standard threshold is 5. 

 

I can't do much about lead that has been deposited in bone but I can still bring blood level down to 3 if I keep going.

Lots of sweating and lots of care.

Edited August 16, 2022 by yekcoh

[TheChewycookie]

Great to hear Joon!

[jubi351]

I had read that garlic helped and took 2000mg for 30 days and no reduction in level. Did you use anything other than just modifying your reloading process? I already wear nitrile gloves and use D lead wipes at the conclusion and was at a 9 last test.

[yekcoh]

On 8/16/2022 at 11:56 AM, TheChewycookie said:

Great to hear Joon!

 

On 8/16/2022 at 2:44 PM, jubi351 said:

I had read that garlic helped and took 2000mg for 30 days and no reduction in level. Did you use anything other than just modifying your reloading process? I already wear nitrile gloves and use D lead wipes at the conclusion and was at a 9 last test.

I haven't heard about garlic. I stopped picking up brass even with gloves on. I used to pick up brass with gloves on in hot weather. I want to think that played a role in raising lead level. I wear mask and eye pro during reloading, although, I don't think it helps that much. Also I assume my fingers have lead until the next day of training. So I try not to touch food with my fingers. I also wipe my phone to remove any dirt from range.

 

[Barcode1337]

I had brought mine from high 5's to low 3's over the course of one year, but then I tested again this summer and it spiked to 7.3 I believe. I have been diligent about using d-lead soap any time I reload or handle my firearm at home. Though I know of a couple range days where I forgot my d-lead wipes, and there were also a couple days I was at an indoor range. I'd hate to think a couple slip ups would spike my levels that much, but it's all I can think of since I'm good about hygiene while at home.

[BritinUSA]

How often do you wash your hair? 

If there is lead on your skin from the range then it’s also on your hair. At night when you head hits the pillow any contaminants in your hair will transfer to the pillow which you will breathe in all night long.

 

When returning from the range, shower and wash your hair before you do anything else. 

 

 

[yekcoh]

Update: may 2023

 

Brought the level down to 3.8. 
The lab standard still says it’s high. I think sub 3 is the normal level

[BritinUSA]

From 11 to 3.8 is impressive. 
 

it might be worth having your house water levels checked as well. Just to ensure there is no contamination coming into your home.

[Sniperboy]

Agreed.  That is impressive.

 

Give it a few more years and these lab rats will say 1.5 will be "high" , all those assessments are so arbitrary, and if I were to guess, simply a means to make workplace lawsuits easier.  Who knows...