A_Cardboard_Box Posted March 14, 2022 Share Posted March 14, 2022 (edited) Hello, A few weeks ago I was at the range for rifle practice and unfortunately found myself dealing with a squib. I heard a click, tap/racked and inspected the chamber and it was full of powder, with some of the kernels being weird and yellow. Looking into the case, I saw that there were clumps of yellow powder holding together as well. I have had 2 squibs in the past several months, but had chalked those up to bad reloading practices and forgetting to charge a primed case that I had set aside, as I didn't see any powder when I was trying to clear these malfunctions. The rifles have been a 16" AR and a 12.5" suppressed AR both in 5.56 NATO. I am totally lost as to the cause of this squib. I've been suggested that it could be powder contamination - However, only 1 out of 90 rounds squibbed that day. If it were contamination, wouldn't that number be much higher? Any and all advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks! https://imgur.com/a/FIXPtck The load recipe is: Midway Factory Second 55gr .224 FMJBT 24.5gr H335 CCI #450 2.23 OAL Mixed brass Light crimp My process is: Wet tumble in a FART with no pins, squirt of dawn and 2x 9mm cases of citric acid Dry in dehydrator Spray with Dillon Case lube on cookie sheet, wait 15 mins for lube to dry Process on Dillon RL1100 Universal decap Swage empty empty RT1500 with Carbide Dillon Size/trim die empty Lyman M die Dry tumble for 15mins to get lube off Gauge cases and primer pockets (No-go Ballistic tools primer pocket gauge) Load on Dillon RL1100 Universal decap Swage Prime Powder empty Seat Crimp Shoot PS I can't seem to figure out how to embed photos into this post, so any help on that would be appreciated too Edited March 14, 2022 by A_Cardboard_Box pics Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve RA Posted March 14, 2022 Share Posted March 14, 2022 May have been a primer which did not fully ignite the powder charge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A_Cardboard_Box Posted March 14, 2022 Author Share Posted March 14, 2022 Quote May have been a primer which did not fully ignite the powder charge. So does this happen? My understanding was that primers either go off or they don't. These are #450s bought in the last year, have there been issues with newer primers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve RA Posted March 14, 2022 Share Posted March 14, 2022 Or, looking at the pics it looks like a fair percentage of the powder is discolored and could have been something in the case which contaminated a portion of the powder. It's the primer or the powder that was the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HesedTech Posted March 14, 2022 Share Posted March 14, 2022 (edited) 54 minutes ago, A_Cardboard_Box said: I've been suggested that it could be powder contamination This may be the problem, but probably is the process. Here's what I recommend as a process: 1. Dry tumble brass if cleaning is needed 2.Lube, size, decap and check OAL of brass (I trim to 1.75) (Maybe chamfer neck if you think it's needed). The point of this step is to remove the spent primer while the brass is 100% dry. When wet tumbling, even with drier, the primer pocket can and some will not fully dry and get some corrosion in them. 3. Clean the brass and fully dry it. 4. Reload it. 5. Gauge check all for correct head space. What is probably happening is your primers are becoming contaminated with something is the pocket while being seated. If you want to stay with your current process inspection of all the brass prior to reloaded is recommended. Make sure the pocket, flash holes and inside the brass are free of contamination, water, lube or anything. Unless you have bad powder, while possible is doubtful, your process is causing the issue. As of this text I've loaded about 5K 223/5.56 without one firing failure and 10s of thousands of pistol. The answer is always in the process. Edited March 14, 2022 by HesedTech Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nolan Posted March 14, 2022 Share Posted March 14, 2022 Do you use corn cobb when you dry tumble? That sure looks like a case was packed with corn cobb, then loaded. If the bottom part of the case was full of corn cobb, the primer flash would be blocked from reaching the powder. Nolan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AHI Posted March 15, 2022 Share Posted March 15, 2022 Had this happen one time. Any possibility that you got a pistol primer in that case instead of a rifle primer? The powder did not ignite for some reason. Are you sure that the cases are dry? Sometimes it takes more than 15min for Hornady one shot to flash off.(dry) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farmer Posted March 15, 2022 Share Posted March 15, 2022 (edited) 8 hours ago, Nolan said: Do you use corn cobb when you dry tumble? That sure looks like a case was packed with corn cobb, then loaded. If the bottom part of the case was full of corn cobb, the primer flash would be blocked from reaching the powder. Nolan I thought this too but he states that after dry tumbling they go through the press again with a decapping die. If a chunk was in the flash hole it should have pushed out. I’m almost betting on a contaminated primer some how along the line. I also have seen this on a round that I had dropped the primer on the floor, picked it up and loaded it. I marked it and sure enough it fizzled just like this. It’s almost like the powder gets warm enough to singe the surface but not enough to ignite. Of course if the case was damp that could cause it too. Have dropped some since that time and haven’t had a problem so I don’t know if I had something (lube ect) on my fingers or what. Check your tubes and anything that contacts your primers. Edited March 15, 2022 by Farmer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
verla Posted March 15, 2022 Share Posted March 15, 2022 Your pic looks like it is corn cobb media blocking the flash from the primer- powder also looks like it contains corn cobb material. Maybe the case was still damp and contained corn cobb media before loading with powder- try drying out the cases for a longer period of time and vigorously shaking the corn cobb media out of the cases when dry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boomstick303 Posted March 15, 2022 Share Posted March 15, 2022 I wet tumble and dry for 2 hours in a dehydrator after processing to remove lube. I cannot stand dry tumbling media on my press. Might be something to consider as long as you dry the brass long enough. After the primer is removed the chance of moisture in the primer pocket is less of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A_Cardboard_Box Posted March 15, 2022 Author Share Posted March 15, 2022 15 hours ago, AHI said: Had this happen one time. Any possibility that you got a pistol primer in that case instead of a rifle primer? The powder did not ignite for some reason. Are you sure that the cases are dry? Sometimes it takes more than 15min for Hornady one shot to flash off.(dry) There might be a very small possibility but I don't think it's likely. The cases are dry, as they get dry tumbled after processing and sit for a while before I load them. 11 hours ago, Farmer said: I thought this too but he states that after dry tumbling they go through the press again with a decapping die. If a chunk was in the flash hole it should have pushed out. I’m almost betting on a contaminated primer some how along the line. I also have seen this on a round that I had dropped the primer on the floor, picked it up and loaded it. I marked it and sure enough it fizzled just like this. It’s almost like the powder gets warm enough to singe the surface but not enough to ignite. Of course if the case was damp that could cause it too. Have dropped some since that time and haven’t had a problem so I don’t know if I had something (lube ect) on my fingers or what. Check your tubes and anything that contacts your primers. This could have happened. Sometimes primers fly out of the machine if they don't quite get picked up fully by the primer slide, I wonder if I had the same thing happen to me. To everyone saying corn cob blocked the flash hole - it's possible that there were some pieces that were lurking in the bottom of the cases, didn't get pushed out by the decapping die, and then blocked the flash hole or contaminated the powder I guess. I guess I need to shoot the rest of this ammo and see if any more squibs happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nolan Posted March 15, 2022 Share Posted March 15, 2022 (edited) 6 hours ago, A_Cardboard_Box said: I guess I need to shoot the rest of this ammo and see if any more squibs happen. I would recommend pulling down the rest of that ammo! Pick up an RCBS collet bullet puller and .22 collet.https://www.amazon.com/RCBS-9440-Bullet-Puller-without/dp/B000N8N1YQ https://www.amazon.com/RCBS-7-35-Bullet-Puller-Collet/dp/B000N8N4BQ You've already had at least 2 squibs. Pull the ammo down, find out what is causing the problem before something more expensive or painful happens. You'll be able to re-use the bullets and cases if you use the collet bullet puller. If you discover your powder was contaminated or lumps of corn cobb media in the cases, you can re-use the primers, otherwise I would not re-use the primers. When you know what's causing the squibs, you'll be able to prevent them in the future. If you just keep guessing, I guess you'll have more squibs. Nolan Edited March 15, 2022 by Nolan DOH! Hit return too fast Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Youngeyes Posted March 23, 2022 Share Posted March 23, 2022 Looking this up on the internet I found this, Mar 4, 2017 #16 So, it looks like the primer went off fine and the powder did not ignite. the powder is yellow and clumped together like a rock. i ran into this problem often when wet tumbling my brass. the citric acid in most soaps will contaminate and cause the powder to clump and become inert. Since switching to dry tumbling, ive never had this problem again. how are you cleaning your cases? ps. based on your pics you have the exact same problem. notice how only part of your powder is yellow. thats the stuff at the bottom of the case that absorbed the soap residue and created a barrier preventing ignition Most of the ideas about this problem all point to incomplete ignition due to contamination. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davecoff13 Posted March 23, 2022 Share Posted March 23, 2022 If it is from the soap or citric acid, then rinse better after tumbling. I also lay my brass out on a towel on the floor and let it hang out for 3 days (the floor has radiant heat in it) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A_Cardboard_Box Posted March 23, 2022 Author Share Posted March 23, 2022 On 3/15/2022 at 3:38 PM, Nolan said: I would recommend pulling down the rest of that ammo! Pick up an RCBS collet bullet puller and .22 collet.https://www.amazon.com/RCBS-9440-Bullet-Puller-without/dp/B000N8N1YQ https://www.amazon.com/RCBS-7-35-Bullet-Puller-Collet/dp/B000N8N4BQ You've already had at least 2 squibs. Pull the ammo down, find out what is causing the problem before something more expensive or painful happens. You'll be able to re-use the bullets and cases if you use the collet bullet puller. If you discover your powder was contaminated or lumps of corn cobb media in the cases, you can re-use the primers, otherwise I would not re-use the primers. When you know what's causing the squibs, you'll be able to prevent them in the future. If you just keep guessing, I guess you'll have more squibs. Nolan Picked up a Forster collet puller so I'll pull em down. 7 hours ago, Youngeyes said: Looking this up on the internet I found this, Mar 4, 2017 #16 So, it looks like the primer went off fine and the powder did not ignite. the powder is yellow and clumped together like a rock. i ran into this problem often when wet tumbling my brass. the citric acid in most soaps will contaminate and cause the powder to clump and become inert. Since switching to dry tumbling, ive never had this problem again. how are you cleaning your cases? ps. based on your pics you have the exact same problem. notice how only part of your powder is yellow. thats the stuff at the bottom of the case that absorbed the soap residue and created a barrier preventing ignition Most of the ideas about this problem all point to incomplete ignition due to contamination. So even dry soap residue can contaminate the powder? I would have thought dry tumbling it would have helped that... Well dang. Maybe I need to give up wet tumbling... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A_Cardboard_Box Posted March 24, 2022 Author Share Posted March 24, 2022 9 hours ago, Youngeyes said: Looking this up on the internet I found this, Mar 4, 2017 #16 So, it looks like the primer went off fine and the powder did not ignite. the powder is yellow and clumped together like a rock. i ran into this problem often when wet tumbling my brass. the citric acid in most soaps will contaminate and cause the powder to clump and become inert. Since switching to dry tumbling, ive never had this problem again. how are you cleaning your cases? ps. based on your pics you have the exact same problem. notice how only part of your powder is yellow. thats the stuff at the bottom of the case that absorbed the soap residue and created a barrier preventing ignition Most of the ideas about this problem all point to incomplete ignition due to contamination. Sorry for the double post, but that same thread on accurateshooter also points to too deep primer seating.... My head hurts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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