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Alliant E3 in 40 sw


Wobber
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   Looking to reload for the 40sw using two different bullets, Acme 140 Gn RNFP and an Eggleston 160 Gn SWC, both of which are poly coated, pistol happens to be a Smith and Wesson M&P 40 Pro Series?!

   Forgive me, but I found a post on the web that said I would find a long thread on the subject here at Brian Enos.

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 Welcome! There is a lot of great reloading information available here. A majority will be for competitive shooting so some of the data and terms may not apply for you. Alot of the .40 s&w load data here will be what's called .40 major basically a load designed for a bullet of a certain weight to travel a certain speed. Some may be loaded longer for 2011 style magazines and to get these velocities safely. I'm afraid I don't have any relating data to share at the moment. I've never used E3 powder.  Are you looking for a soft shooting load, something that will cycle a factory spring, something else? 

The forum had a search feature but if you Google "enos E3 load data" it may be easier. Just be sure your on the .40/10mm area. I think some people use E3 in 9mm as well. 

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   My objective is simple plinking, that's all I know. Just needing a safe starting weight for the E3 with the two bullets, 140 Gn & 160 Gn. I appreciate phoenixsomd's reply, but it leaves me with the question of how much heavier my powder charges should be for my lighter bullets?!

   I'm a believer in "variety is the spice of life" idea, and just wanted to try this powder E3 on, or with some metallic cartridges. I purchased thee stuff to load paper hulled 12 Ga for my old double barrels thinking it just sounded nostalgic, but it only came in a 4# jug, and I have a closet full of other loads that I just don't shoot, pistols are funner as in you can really go through more ammunition! I never hit anything, but I enjoy making the noise.  : )

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https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/e3-for-pistols.539559/

 

This may give you a ballpark? This said 10% less than red dot data.  Unfortunately allliant doesn't list .40 data on the website for red dot either. Again not much help I'm afraid. I'm sure someone can chim in here. For what it's worth if it can be safely loaded with a heavier bullet, that can give a ballpark starting point for a lighter one. 160 and 140g bullets are pretty light and not often loaded for .40 major. Most .40 major use 180g or 200g. Basically as heavy as possible with the lightest load to get the desired velocity. 😕

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Most have used Hodgdon Clays data as a reference. E3 isn’t as peaky as Clays but you still need to start low and work up. If your new to loading metallic go slow as it’s a fast powder and tenths make a difference. 

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   Farmer, so if I go to my Lee 2nd Edition, which is more used than the rest I have because of it's generality, for my Acme 140 Gn RNFP I need to fall back to a 135 Gn Jacketed bullet listing, which my understanding tells me to use data for a lighter bullet if one can't be precise, it tells me to use 4.0 to 4.5 Gn's of Clays. Given the difference in bullet weight and different powder, which throw would you use, the 4.0 or 4.5 for a starting point?

   Anybody jump in here! And yes, I am a little new to the craft, shotshell and metallic. I've had squibs in both so I am experienced enough to be cautious!

 

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Neither!  My Lee 2nd Ed doesn’t show a Clays listing for that bullet. Besides that, if you cannot find a load for you bullet weight you Don’t go to a lighter bullet load, you go to a Heavier one. The Hodgdon manual shows for a,

 

150g Nosler JHP @ 1.125 Col

3.8 - 4.0g of Clays. 


For a 155 XTP Col-1.125

3.6 - 4.0 Clays 

 

To give an example, I run 4.2-4.5 e3 under a 155 Berrys in my 10mm and their right at 1000 fps, so you don’t want to start at 4.0g in your 40SW. 

Besides, If your new to reloading you should stick to published loads until you gain experience. 

Edited by Farmer
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  • 3 weeks later...

Here is the data for my 155gr loads.  CCI 500, 3.1 e3, 155gr LSWC - 864fps out of my CZ TS.  3.4 gr gets you 944fps.  OAL was 1.126" for both.

 

The 3.1 was a nice load.  You can go lower without a problem.  When you start getting soot around the outside of the spent case, you are too low.  It is not unsafe, but you don't have enough pressure to seal the case walls against the chamber.  Do that for long enough and you'll see some damage.

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  • 1 month later...

    What I did to start was load the 140 Gn RNFP Acme bullet with the E3 from 4.0 Gn to 5.8 Gn in 0.2 Gn increments, 5 loads each. They averaged respectively, 1039/1055/1082/1111/1146/1175/1217/1231/1274/1285. All of which seem to be acceptable speeds for the 40 SW. No signs of primer flattening or blow outs, or blow by's. Used a 40 SW M&P 2.0 with a 5" barrel.

   So I went on with 9mm in two different weight bullets, and came up with comparable results! 115 Gn Missouri RN bullet with the E3 @ 3.3 Gn to 4.2 Gn, giving velocities of 1073 fps to 1213. Then a 125 Gn RN Acme bullet with E3 @ 3.2 Gn to 4.2 Gn, giving velocities from 1020 through 1200 fps, same results with the primers. That was out of a Beretta 92 FS with a 4 7/8" barrel.

   I went on to 45 ACP with the same 5 shot load, or is it string, sequence. 175 Gn Acme SWC with E3 @ 4.0 Gn to 4.4 Gn gave me 664 to 1172 FPS. That was a Tisas 1911 A1 with 5" barrel. I loaded up a test round of 185 Gn'ers but the sun went down on the old Pawnee!

   I should clarify that the 9mm and 45 ACP were loaded in 0.1 Gn increments.

Edited by Wobber
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     Thank you, that was an example of (my) bad documentation! After wondering where that came from, I realized that was/were the parameters I had typed onto the label for the test ammo, 664-1172 FPS for a 175 Gn bullet. The speeds with the E3 @ 4.0 - 4.4 looked more like 809 to 894, sound better?

   I wonder what the recoil would have felt like at 1172 FPS? Never mind, I don't need to know!  : )

 

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Finally got a lb. of e3. It has been very hard to find.

I have loaded 2.8 gr. of it for BB 180gr RNFP and got 133 PF out of my Walther PPQ @ 1.150.

I am now shooting a TSO and have tested it and found that the red dot returns much quicker with the BB165 gr. RNFP than the 180s. And I get a better HF from the "ready" position. This is with VV powder.  I really like e3 and am looking for a good place to start with 165's. I load the TSO to 1.135 and am looking for around 130-135 PF.

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18 hours ago, mstewart said:

I really like e3 and am looking for a good place to start with 165's. I load the TSO to 1.135 and am looking for around 130-135 PF.

 

I used 3.0gr e3 under an Extreme 165 @ 1.126" OAL for 138 PF in my TS.  So try 2.9.  I also found the sights returned faster with a 165.  

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  • 2 weeks later...

Loaded up the following and here are my results for Alliant e3:

 

2.9 gr.

Avg. Velocity- 805 fps

PF-134

ES - 29

SD - 8

 

3.1 gr.

 

Avg. Velocity- 871 fps

PF-145

ES - 35

SD - 10

 

3.3 gr.

 

Avg. Velocity- 888 fps

PF-148

ES - 14

SD - 5

 

I feel my 2.9 gr. results were a little off as I don't think my powder drop was settled in. I threw out a high and low shots because there were significantly different. I shot 10 rounds each through chrono and 5 at target (rested) and 10 free hand at target. Rested groups were all under 1" @ 30 feet. I liked the 3.1 gr. best for feel shooting freehand. Loaded up 100 @ 3.0 gr. and will shoot next time at range. Will save 15 to run across chrono.  Overall I am happy with the powder and hope to find more in the future.

 

Thanks for your help

 

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  • 1 month later...

I've used E3 for both 9 and .40.

With. 40 I have used xtreme 155 gr plated and 165 gr Blue bullets for minor.

 

For major I've used BB 165, 180, and 200.  Had success with 200 gr Acme as well.

My 165 gr BB recipe is 4.2 Gr @ 1.140" Coal out of my CZ TSO. 171 PF

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