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Viable Starting Load for .40 S&W Major?


GunBugBit

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The Atlas Nemesis chambered in .40 S&W that I ordered will be coming earlier than expected so I'll be reloading for it soon.  I've reloaded .45 ACP and 9x19mm but not .40 S&W.

 

I ordered 180gr Black Bullets.  I have a lot of CFE Pistol on hand that I'm not currently using.

 

For a CFE Pistol load, I'm thinking I'll start with:

  • COAL: 1.19"
  • 5.2gr CFE Pistol
  • Crimp: .423"

 

From what I gather, this might come in slightly below the floor of major.  From there I would work up (or down?) until the slowest velocity in a group of 10 is 934 fps or just above, going for 168-170 PF.

 

That's my thinking at the moment.  Please be so kind as to let me know if you load .40 major similarly, and what I might want to tweak.

Edited by GunBugBit
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CFE out of my Nemesis
For coated, it was
BlueBulllets @200gr
CFE: 4.9gr
OAL 1.190
PF: 169.4

For copper
Xtreme  @180gr
CFE: 6.1
OAL: 1.190

PF: 164.8

I never worked up a USPSA load for 180 because I preferred the feel of N320 and Clean Shot to CFE.
CFE is fine and if you have a bunch, "run whatcha brung".  Without a direct comparison, I am not sure I would notice the difference in feel.

But, if you follow the work of Dr Brad Miller (https://www.shootingtimes.com/editorial/gunpowder-contribution-to-recoil/328788), all else equal, for non-compensated pistols, use the smallest grain charge to make your load.

In our case, that is fast burning powder (search here, there are tons of great posts on it)...so Clean Shot wins (for me).

Best,
David

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To have some .40 rounds on hand when the  Nemesis comes, I ordered and received some Precision Delta 180gr jacketed RNFP.  They’re supposed to average 950fps, for a PF of 171.  The rounds are loaded long.  I measured a few and they’re between 1.180” and 1.185”.  This is just the type of load the Nemesis should like.  I’ll use them for zeroing the sights and getting a feel for the gun.

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On 3/2/2022 at 9:49 AM, yelpspoon said:

But, if you follow the work of Dr Brad Miller (https://www.shootingtimes.com/editorial/gunpowder-contribution-to-recoil/328788), all else equal, for non-compensated pistols, use the smallest grain charge to make your load.

In our case, that is fast burning powder (search here, there are tons of great posts on it)...so Clean Shot wins (for me).

Best,
David

 

It's not the weight of the charge that matters.  It's the burn rate of the powder.  If you check the SAAMI formula for felt recoil, the only variable that reduces felt recoil for a given bullet weight and velocity is the burn rate of the powder.  However, since faster powders typically require smaller charges to accomplish a given velocity, the two will typically coincide.  But the gun writer didn't discover that, and he's not actually correct on the facts.  

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  • 1 month later...

After acquiring everything I need last week to reload .40 S&W, I started off with:

  • COAL: 1.192"
  • 4.48gr CFE Pistol (was going for 4.5 but didn't tweak further after 5 dumps divided by 5 yielded 4.48)
  • Black Bullets coated and Precision Delta FMJ, both 180gr

Base on yelpspoon's data, I figured this would come in around the floor of minor, and sure enough, it is the case.

 

For the coated bullets, the chrono showed an average of 732.17 fps for a PF of 131.79.

For the FMJ bullets, it was an average of 665.07 fps for a PF of 119.71.

 

I had heard or read somewhere that coated bullets get higher velocities than FMJ, so wasn't surprised by the different speeds between the two bullet types.

 

The very first shot with the sub-minor FMJ load gave a stovepipe, so I switched out the 11# recoil spring with an 8#.  That is the only malfunction with the Nemesis so far, after about 400 rounds.  After the spring change, function was 100% with both bullet types. 

 

After taking the chrono measurements, I did some offhand shooting at 7, 10 and 15 yards.  The groups with FMJ were a little tighter than with the coated bullets, although I do better with both bullet types out of the Nemesis than with any other competition handgun I own.

 

The load with the coated bullets is suitable for Steel Challenge with this gun.  I don't like to shoot FMJ's for that game since I've seen copper shrapnel bloodletting, specifically on the Roundabout stage when a shooter was using factory .45 FMJ.

 

Obviously the FMJ load doesn't make the floor of minor in the event I'd try to use it as a USPSA minor load.  It feels and functions great with the 8# recoil spring, though.

 

If I have a reason to shoot major, I have some Precision Delta "long" factory loads left over, and don't plan to shoot them for a while.  I chrono'd one just for the heck of it, and the chrono showed 952 fps.  The box advertises 950 fps.  I believe I would need 6gr and a few tenths more of CFE to approximate this load.

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Thanks Max, that gives me an excellent reference point for a major load!  Bruno's Shooter's Supply near me usually has N320, I should get some.  I have a lot of CFE Pistol and even more Titegroup, but N320 seems like the prime choice.

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Alliant e3 is the cat's meow for 40sw.  3.6 or 3.7 under a 180 coated or plated for 172 PF, depending on bullet.  2.8 under the same bullet for 140 PF.  Same POI, same recoil spring.  No temperature sensitivity, and a LOT cheaper than N320.  If you think you will like N320, buy Alliant Sport Pistol instead.  Superb powder that burns cool and was specifically formulated for coated bullets.  Same burn rate as N320.  I have both and prefer e3 for 40 because you use less powder and produce less recoil.

 

I'll give you another tip.  I shot 180s because everyone else did.  Toward the end of my Limited shooting I switched to 165s.  Hit the hand harder, but sights returned quicker.  I also experimented with 155s, but my gun didn't like them.

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This is out of Alliant reloading manual 1986

180 jhp 

Win brass

WSP primer

5.3 grs green dot  33,000 psi

coal 1.125

Vel 1010 fps, out of a 4" barrel for a PF of about 181 

Use your own judgement and caution. I am using 4.9-5 grs out of my glock 35 with storm lake barrel and it hammers steel.

 

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  • 2 weeks later...
  • 1 year later...
On 4/25/2022 at 7:58 AM, GunBugBit said:

After acquiring everything I need last week to reload .40 S&W, I started off with:

  • COAL: 1.192"
  • 4.48gr CFE Pistol [ NO, I meant Titegroup!] (was going for 4.5 but didn't tweak further after 5 dumps divided by 5 yielded 4.48)
  • Black Bullets coated and Precision Delta FMJ, both 180gr

Wow, I said “CFE Pistol” but it’s definitely Titegroup.

 

I’m wondering what amount of CFE Pistol powder I’d need to approximate the PF I’m getting with the above load.  I have a lot of CFE Pistol.

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IIRC correctly you should be at MUCH higher velocity with 4.5 of tight group under a 180.. SOunded about right with CFE..  I seem to recall about 4.8 tight group under a 180.. 
I think you need to drop back and punt. Get yourself a manual and figure out what you are doing. and with what. SHould be plenty of published data with 40 and CFE.

I am with ZZT above had same experience.. I was shooting 6" limited gun and 165's just seemd to do better for me in that gun.. It shot 155 minor just fine, but I almost never shot them, because gun wasnt IDPA legal and my 155's went in my SS

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I have an extra and unused complete set of .40 dies, toolhead, and powder measure that I ordered from Dillon a couple of years ago and which finally arrived a few months ago.  I can set that up with CFE pistol powder and find out what an equivalent load would be.

 

Once I’ve worked that out, I’ll make one setup my minor configuration and the other will be for major.  Most likely I’ll keep my minor Titegroup setup as-is because it works great, and the newer one will be for major.  Of course CFE Pistol is not ideal but if it works well enough I’ll use up what I have, or just switch to a better powder when the time seems right.

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I have a second toolhead all set up with CFE, dialed in to drop 5.5 grains.  The goal is to produce 930-940 fps, with 920 fps being the lowest I'll accept.

 

On the original setup, if I really did start off with CFE then had a brain hiccup that made me refill with Titegroup, the chrono should show faster velocities than 730-ish fps when I re-chrono this load.  The powder drops still weigh in around 4.4gr, but that same powder, if Titegroup when it was originally CFE, should give more velocity.

 

Everything is lined up to check this out - loaded rounds with each powder, fresh batteries for chrono, etc.

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On 7/9/2023 at 1:26 PM, Joe4d said:

IIRC correctly you should be at MUCH higher velocity with 4.5 of tight group under a 180.. SOunded about right with CFE..  I seem to recall about 4.8 tight group under a 180..

Yes I see exactly what you're saying when I look at Hodgdon's load data for the two powders.

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  • 1 month later...
On 7/19/2023 at 9:53 AM, GunBugBit said:

I have a second toolhead all set up with CFE, dialed in to drop 5.5 grains.  The goal is to produce 930-940 fps, with 920 fps being the lowest I'll accept.

Finally chrono’d this load.  Turns out it’s a nice major load, with velocities averaging right in the 950fps zone, same as Precision Delta 180gr “Long”.  I’ll probably dial it down a tenth of a grain or two, but if I see any shots under 920 fps, I’ll increase again.

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