Johnny_Chimpo Posted February 27, 2022 Share Posted February 27, 2022 (edited) Awesome.... I don't know who the guy on the right is, but based on his level of knowledge about the sport he's the last person in the world who needs to be lecturing USPSA about "updating". What a chump. He probably got smoked at whatever match he went to. LOL Good Lord, what an idiot The guy on the left is slightly better informed but not by much. Edited February 27, 2022 by Johnny_Chimpo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chills1994 Posted February 27, 2022 Share Posted February 27, 2022 The first video is an hour plus long. I just started watching it. The second video is 3 plus minutes long. If one were to think of various shooting competitions like they were flight simulators, for 40 years IPSC / USPSA has been the best “gunfight” simulator that most people can practice in or with just about every weekend of the year. Outside of some government funded shooting school, federal agent academy, or some high zoot civilian Hogan’s Alley range, there is nothing better than USPSA. There have been a few other start up organizations over the years, but they didn’t take off like USPSA did. Those two guys in the video are more than welcome to start up their own new shooting competition organization. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny_Chimpo Posted February 27, 2022 Author Share Posted February 27, 2022 15 minutes ago, Chills1994 said: The first video is an hour plus long. I just started watching it. The second video is 3 plus minutes long. If one were to think of various shooting competitions like they were flight simulators, for 40 years IPSC / USPSA has been the best “gunfight” simulator that most people can practice in or with just about every weekend of the year. Outside of some government funded shooting school, federal agent academy, or some high zoot civilian Hogan’s Alley range, there is nothing better than USPSA. There have been a few other start up organizations over the years, but they didn’t take off like USPSA did. Those two guys in the video are more than welcome to start up their own new shooting competition organization. I can respect the POV of the bearded guy. For someone who admits having no interest in USPSA (which is perfectly fine) he has a much better grasp of what it is and isn't than the idiot wearing the black hat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chills1994 Posted February 28, 2022 Share Posted February 28, 2022 I am about 31 minutes in and have another 45 minutes to go to finish that first video. I think I have heard enough. I have better things to do with my time. So I clicked on the video description. If you think of the run of the mill Joe Average cop as skilled with a gun…HA! Check your underlying premise. I ran into an old police chief and academy instructor at the range once. This was the late 1990’s. He told me back then that officer involved shooting stats showed that most encounters were from 3 to 5 seconds long, 3 to 5 shots were fired, at a distance of 3 to 5 yards. So what were those two dudes saying about the speed aspect of USPSA being bad? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CC3D Posted February 28, 2022 Share Posted February 28, 2022 Wouldn't show up to a drag race hoping to get some quality drivers ed.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ima45dv8 Posted February 28, 2022 Share Posted February 28, 2022 6 hours ago, Chills1994 said: So what were those two dudes saying about the speed aspect of USPSA being bad? Speed IS a Tactic (and a pretty damn good one, too! ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny_Chimpo Posted February 28, 2022 Author Share Posted February 28, 2022 7 hours ago, CC3D said: Wouldn't show up to a drag race hoping to get some quality drivers ed.. Well, drag racing doesn't teach much of anything about driving. A better analogy is that you are a somewhat competent driver who signs up for an advanced driving school held at a road racing track. A brand new shooter won't get much out of USPSA. But one that has the basics under control will, if he applies himself. There are people who have actual real world fighting experience who do use practical sport shooting as the primary teaching methodology in their classes. Matt Pranka is one that I personally know of, having taken one of his classes last year. I think I'll listen to him over either of those two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CC3D Posted February 28, 2022 Share Posted February 28, 2022 I don't think there is anything wrong with using USPSA as a training tool to help you better your gun handling skills. Lots of people us it for that. But that's not what it's for. To go back to the drag race analogy, If I want to learn how to be a better driver by learning to control my car when I push it to the absolute limit, that's fine. Thats like using USPSA as a training tool to master gun handling skills. But I cant then go and complain about the sport of drag racing because it didn't teach me how to do a three point turn. Thats like expecting to learn "tactical" bs from USPSA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny_Chimpo Posted March 1, 2022 Author Share Posted March 1, 2022 11 hours ago, CC3D said: I don't think there is anything wrong with using USPSA as a training tool to help you better your gun handling skills. Lots of people us it for that. But that's not what it's for. To go back to the drag race analogy, If I want to learn how to be a better driver by learning to control my car when I push it to the absolute limit, that's fine. Thats like using USPSA as a training tool to master gun handling skills. But I cant then go and complain about the sport of drag racing because it didn't teach me how to do a three point turn. Thats like expecting to learn "tactical" bs from USPSA. 100% agree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AHI Posted March 2, 2022 Share Posted March 2, 2022 (edited) Uspsa and Idpa are games. Nothing more. Nothing less. We laugh at tacktards when they show up. Edited March 2, 2022 by AHI Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny_Chimpo Posted March 2, 2022 Author Share Posted March 2, 2022 3 hours ago, AHI said: Uspsa and Idpa are games. Nothing more. Nothing less. We laugh at tacktards when they show up. Most of them get spanked pretty hard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chills1994 Posted March 2, 2022 Share Posted March 2, 2022 On 2/28/2022 at 1:26 AM, ima45dv8 said: Speed IS a Tactic (and a pretty damn good one, too! ) Amen to that! As a side note, about 15 years ago, Ben used to post on the Beretta forum. At some point, he was in some police “academy” and posted about the range instructors there trying to teach tactics. You could sense Ben’s frustration with what they were trying to teach. Granted, my memory is a little foggy about it, but one could get the notion that the instructors were telling Ben to slow down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chills1994 Posted March 2, 2022 Share Posted March 2, 2022 7 hours ago, Johnny_Chimpo said: Most of them get spanked pretty hard Unfortunately, out of all the cops who I have seen show up to matches, maybe only two ever came back for a second (or third or fourth) match. They get spanked so hard at the first match their egos can’t take it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hitman_usmc Posted March 2, 2022 Share Posted March 2, 2022 I’m a uspsa shooter and have been for years. That being said, it’s a game that happens to use a pistol. That’s it. If you’re really good at it, basic pistol skills certainly transfer to all things with a pistol. It certainly won’t hurt. I argue with those on the tactical side (like these guys on the podcast) that it’s not meant to be tactical anything and “won’t get you killed in the streets,” if you shoot uspsa. That being said, I’ve seen a growing number of uspsa shooters, mainly on the internet, that have started acting like they are a one man, blackest ops, ninja because they’re decent at uspsa. Just as I argue for uspsa to “tactards,” I’m tired of being quiet when it’s the reverse. Most self defense shooting happen very quickly and at close range. If a guy who has barely any shooting skills is 3 yards from you and he has his gun out first, chances are you GM card is worthless. If there’s anything more than a sudden close range shooting that ends in 2 seconds, tactics are a huge part. A GM card doesn’t make up for tactics. I’ve also noted that all the training I’ve done in the military and LE, the accuracy standard has also been more strict than a full size A zone. Usually half an A zone at best. Bottom line is, they’re two different things. One doesn’t make you awesome at the other. I agree that many cops aren’t the best shooters. There’s many other things that are mandated every year in training and shooting is only a tiny portion. I’m not saying it’s right, it’s just how it is. That being said, I know many cops are are very good shooters. You can also be a good shooter and not place well at your first few matches. A teammate of mine is prior force recon and can definitely shoot. He gives me a run for my money at work all the time. He’s shot one match and I smoked him. It wasn’t due to poor shooting, it was because he doesn’t have any experience in the game and the type of movement, rules, etc . He hasn’t shot many more matches because he’s just not super into it. He doesn’t like spending 5 hours at a range to shoot for a total of 3 minutes. He also has a wife and kids and has a lot of other stuff he has to do since his work week prevents a lot of family time. It’s not because he’s some dumb cop that can’t shoot and gets butt hurt at competition shooting. I know many guys who’d like to compete but they’re stuck working weekends for years on end. It makes me sad see a growing disdain for LE or Mil or anything that has to do with a profession that uses firearms just because theirs world isn’t uspsa. Final point I’ll take pranka, Lockwood, Panone, smith, etc., over Sailer to help me out in a tactard environment any day. While I’ve met and trained with Sailer, his uspsa skills don’t mean all that much. Conversely, the other guys are good at uspsa (not champs) but are much more well rounded. I’d take them over someone who thinks the stress of a timer and a match is equivalent to a gunfight even though it’s cardboard you got to plan for during a 5 minute walk through. I was only a grunt marine that fought in fallujah and current swat cop at a large city. I’m nothing special. Uspsa has helped me with basic pistol handling, but the stuff I did in fallujah and the 4 shootings I’ve been in as a cop had nothing similar to uspsa other than using a pistol in 3 of them. To me it sounds like people saying they’re good at horse means they could beat a whole NBA team because both games involve a basketball. If you’re good an NFL 2020 on play station, you probably should tell NFL players they’re worthless. Bottom line, people on both sides need to get off their high horses and be happy people are pro gun. rant complete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nolan Posted March 2, 2022 Share Posted March 2, 2022 Thank you Hitman_USMC! I'm lucky enough to shoot with a bunch of current and former law enforcement and military, most of whom kick my butt! They have a very hard job that I would be totally incapable of doing. So thanks to you and them for your service! Nolan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckS Posted March 2, 2022 Share Posted March 2, 2022 I know this isn't a hate thread (actually, it really is but just in the wrong forum). We are bagging on other shooters. Let's not do that here. closed... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts