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Tips to be faster.


Goat259
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Good Morning,

 

Yesterday I was reading through the forum and read a quote that stuck with me. "It easier to train a naturally fast person to be accurate than an accurate person to be faster."

 

In this quote, I am the latter. I am accurate but slow. My stage times are usually 3-6 seconds longer than that of my peers who place similar to me in a stage. What are some tips and tricks I can do to increase my speed and learn what I can get away with?

 

Thank you

 

Goat

Edited by Goat259
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I'm in the same boat.

Looking at my videos, I see myself losing time here and there, and it all adds up: I need to clean up my draws, transitions, and position entry/exit(including getting the gun up just before the target is visible/before I enter the shooting area).

There are a lot of places to make up time, and it will vary somewhat by division. With lo-cap, you need to sort out your reloads. If you've got a dot, you need to be shooting on the move a lot more than you would with irons. Bent knees/good stance(Stoeger calls it a shortstop stance, as I recall) helps with shooting on the mood as well as launching out of position/stabilizing into a position.

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I just watched my videos from when I first started and it made me see just how slow I am. There were some compound movements like reload on the move and shooting while moving but I argue that it didn’t save me time. Maybe even made my time worse because I was trying to be careful. I’ve been focused more on my movements over the last week or so and just break it down day by day. Yesterday was vertical target transitions and reloads. The day before that was horizontal eye transitions and reloads. I believe my eye speed vs my hand speed is killing time. Trying to improve  to where I can call a shot or at least commit to the last shot and move my eyes to the next target so they are there before my dot reaches it. Rather than eyes and dot, get sighted in, break the shot, move on. Hopefully this weekend I can run around in the backyard and try to work on entry and exiting maneuvers. 
 

what I’m getting at is, I’ve found helpful in theory (match in a few weeks will confirm or dismiss) is taking small bites of training and then incorporating them together has been helpful. Keeps me on track of what I’m trying to learn or improve and stay focused. Also let’s me find faults easier. Hope this helps. 

Edited by X5SigChris
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The process is very simple, but the difficulty of doing it depends on how easily you get discouraged. This is how I approach my dryfire.

  1. Break down each action to a digestible motion. For example, a draw can be seen as a single motion or multiple motions. Pick whatever makes most sense to you.
  2. Compare your times to the best.
  3. Try to just get the speed. If you see world champions are consistently drawing from beep to first shot in 0.8 seconds, then see if you can even make the time. Note, this might require you to just pull the trigger immediately when the gun is pointing in a safe direction. If you can't physically meet the time, then the action needs to be broken down into smaller pieces until you can make the par times of each piece. In the context of the draw: (1) is your hand getting to the gun quick enough? (2) is the gun coming out of the holster fast enough? (3) is your support hand meeting the gun as fast as possible? (4) is your grip established before the shot? (5) do you know where the shot is going after the trigger is pulled?
  4. While keeping the time as fast as possible, incrementally improve your form so that it mimics the performance you're striving to achieve.

 

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1 hour ago, TheChewycookie said:

I have a couple of initial questions before I offer something:

 

What is your dream, and goals to get there?

How frequently do you live fire? Both matches and practice.

Chewy,

 

1. I am switching to shooting Limited this year. I have set a goal of making A class by the end of the season. My goals to get there are to smooth my transitions and entry and exits more efficient.

 

2. I dry fire multiple days of the week. Live fire is not often right now as it is winter right now where I live. 

 

Shooting 40 is a whole different beast than 9. I am always looking to refine my grip and improve on it. 

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45 minutes ago, CClassForLife said:

The process is very simple, but the difficulty of doing it depends on how easily you get discouraged. This is how I approach my dryfire.

  1. Break down each action to a digestible motion. For example, a draw can be seen as a single motion or multiple motions. Pick whatever makes most sense to you.
  2. Compare your times to the best.
  3. Try to just get the speed. If you see world champions are consistently drawing from beep to first shot in 0.8 seconds, then see if you can even make the time. Note, this might require you to just pull the trigger immediately when the gun is pointing in a safe direction. If you can't physically meet the time, then the action needs to be broken down into smaller pieces until you can make the par times of each piece. In the context of the draw: (1) is your hand getting to the gun quick enough? (2) is the gun coming out of the holster fast enough? (3) is your support hand meeting the gun as fast as possible? (4) is your grip established before the shot? (5) do you know where the shot is going after the trigger is pulled?
  4. While keeping the time as fast as possible, incrementally improve your form so that it mimics the performance you're striving to achieve.

 

CClass,

 

From beep to first shot I am at 1.3. I may try your method of just doing the draw without a trigger pull to see what I can do. 

 

Shot calling is something I need to learn better as well. 

 

What are some tips for entries and exits?

 

Goat

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1 hour ago, CClassForLife said:

see if you can even make the time. Note, this might require you to just pull the trigger immediately when the gun is pointing in a safe direction. If you can't physically meet the time, then the action needs to be broken down into smaller pieces until you can make the par times of each piece.

You've made this comment elsewhere and it greatly changed my thinking.

 

I'm new to regular dry fire but after reading this idea I've drastically changed my approach. I now dedicate some time each session to getting the gun in front of the target in under 0.7 with the intention of eventually seeing my sights by that time. Pushing raw speed before vision has cut my actual draw by at least 0.2. I can't learn to see what isn't there so step one is getting the gun in the place I'm looking. In two weeks (about 4.5 hours of actual dry fire time) I went from an occasional 1.2s best to a regularly hitting 0.9s.

 

Similarly I'm trying to breakdown my reloads for more efficiency which involves moving the gun in and out less. The slowest part is still reacquiring the sight picture.

Edited by belus
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4 minutes ago, belus said:

I'm new to regular dry fire but after reading this idea I've drastically changed my approach. I'm now dedicate some time each session to getting the gun in front of the target in under 0.7 which the intention of eventually seeing my sights by that time. Pushing raw speed before vision has cut my actual draw by at least 0.2. I can't learn to see what isn't there so step one is getting the gun in the place I'm looking. In two weeks (about 4.5 hours of actual dry fire time) I went from an occasional 1.2s best to a regularly hitting 0.9s.

 

Awesome man, glad that you're seeing progress.

 

9 minutes ago, Goat259 said:

What are some tips for entries and exits?

 

  1. Without a gun, record yourself moving from position to position as fast as you humanly can. While in each position, take the effort to aim with only your eyes. You should clearly see the exact spot (not just the general area) where you intend a bullet to go.
  2. Now put your hands up as if you're holding an imaginary gun and do it again. Ideally, this time should be exactly the same as step 1.
  3. Next, do the same with a dry gun. Get used to moving at the speed from step 1. Eventually, you'll start to get flashes of an appropriate sight picture. It takes a lot of time and dedication to get refine it to the level that you're historically comfortable with, but that's ok.
  4. Once you think step 3 is easy, then do it in live fire to destroy your ego so that you're free to start actually observing your mistakes: (1) does your footwork all of a sudden change with live ammo? (2) is your shooting platform angle different than your dryfire runs? (3) are you hesitating into positions? (4) are you waiting after each shot due to a lack of shot calling?
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Said to my face, by Elias Frangoulis (Wold Shoot Classic champion), "66% of my practice, every time, is out of my comfort zone. Misses, overrunning, all of it just pushing pushing pushing."

 

In the moment, we like speed and accuracy. But in training it is best to work them separately.

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I'm a big fan of Steve Anderson and he has 3 modes of training: speed mode, accuracy and match mode and each serves a purpose. If your body doesn't know how to go fast, it won't be able to. On the other hand, if you body can do a sloppy 0.8 draw, a second feels slow and comfortable. It's important to know and decide before you start training what you are trying to accomplish during dry fire. I have a log book and it it are what I'm training, my par times I'm using, what mode of training, and any comments I have.

 

The other thing is everything doesn't have to be done faster, what can be done sooner? Is your gun up and ready to shoot as soon as you are in position, or do you run, stop, and then bring your gun up.

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4 hours ago, rowdyb said:

Said to my face, by Elias Frangoulis (Wold Shoot Classic champion), "66% of my practice, every time, is out of my comfort zone. Misses, overrunning, all of it just pushing pushing pushing."

 

In the moment, we like speed and accuracy. But in training it is best to work them separately.

You posted a video a little while back of Four Aces in 2.30s which is beyond my level right now. I'd eat that 2.3 in just the draw and reload, plus another 0.3-0.4 for actually shooting.

 

But you also got some unsolicited advice in response to that video which I'm processing right now. It may have even been from @CClassForLife, I don't recall. But a common idea is to point your magwell/opening at the mag pouch for a smooth reload. The comment was that you were doing this while also rotating the gun more than necessary and loosing a bit of time in returning the sights to the target. Returning the sites to the target quickly is something I'm struggling with at the moment so the comment struck a cord with me.

I'm now practicing my reloads with minimal twisting of the gun to see the magwell and it's making an immediate impact. I drop the mag and rather than turn my strong hand palm towards my face, I instead dip the muzzle down under the target just enough to see the opening. Its about as easy to hit the bucket reload (a little more practice needed), but way faster reacquiring the sight picture.  I'm sure other people have played with this idea before and maybe I'll run into a shortcoming but its improving my times so far.

 

Anyways, I bring this up because I find your commentary and insights helpful Rowdy and it often leads to illuminating discussion.

 

edit to add: Elias Frangoulis was at our local match last week. I shot a short stage within 0.05s of him, though he had a reload and I didn't. So maybe 0.25s off his pace. Felt pretty good to see some early dry fire payoff.

Edited by belus
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  • 2 weeks later...
On 2/1/2022 at 5:32 PM, rowdyb said:

Said to my face, by Elias Frangoulis (Wold Shoot Classic champion), "66% of my practice, every time, is out of my comfort zone. Misses, overrunning, all of it just pushing pushing pushing."

 

In the moment, we like speed and accuracy. But in training it is best to work them separately.

So even in dry fire, when I am working on a transition, are you saying it is ok to to not have a clear sight picture and just focus on meeting the time I am trying to achieve? Like, just go full bore as fast as I can?

 

Goat

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14 hours ago, Goat259 said:

it is ok to to not have a clear sight picture and just focus on meeting the time I am trying to achieve?

An important part of dryfire is processing the simulated visual information that you need to complete whatever task. Clear sight picture tends to result in slower times, an acceptable sight picture helps to speed things up. Not everything is "clear front sight" because the bullet will simply impact wherever on the target that the gun was pointed.

 

Dry = pushing to create faster and better results,  live = testing if what you're doing in dry is working. It's a theory and experiment process. Matches ideally should be the execution portion.

 

Going full bore looks cool for IG likes, but knowing what issues happen is the more important thing. If you didn't learn anything positive and negative from a full bore run, then you need to back things off a bit so that you're able process what can be improved. There's a limit to what the brain can process in a day, so stretch it across multiple days or maybe weeks.

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7 hours ago, TheChewycookie said:

An important part of dryfire is processing the simulated visual information that you need to complete whatever task. Clear sight picture tends to result in slower times, an acceptable sight picture helps to speed things up. Not everything is "clear front sight" because the bullet will simply impact wherever on the target that the gun was pointed.

 

Dry = pushing to create faster and better results,  live = testing if what you're doing in dry is working. It's a theory and experiment process. Matches ideally should be the execution portion.

 

Going full bore looks cool for IG likes, but knowing what issues happen is the more important thing. If you didn't learn anything positive and negative from a full bore run, then you need to back things off a bit so that you're able process what can be improved. There's a limit to what the brain can process in a day, so stretch it across multiple days or maybe weeks.

I’ve found that clear, acceptable, and out of tolerance can all start to blend together after time and not paying close attention. Clear can turn into acceptable and then you turn it up a bit and poof, dot (irons) is all over. It’s definitely a balancing act at times. 

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On 2/15/2022 at 7:52 PM, Goat259 said:

So even in dry fire, when I am working on a transition, are you saying it is ok to to not have a clear sight picture and just focus on meeting the time I am trying to achieve? Like, just go full bore as fast as I can?

 

Goat

I'm talking about live fire and moving beyond a plateau of good to great. Maybe I wasn't clear grammatically about what was conveyed to me.

 

When you've do e proper dry fire and you've gone as far as you can, to go further you're going to have to push. And push doing it differently. Yiu don't break plateaus by just doubling down on the same old you've already been doing.

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