Budget Setup For Carry Optics

[X5SigChris]

I used to shoot a STI in limited. I never trained though for practical shooting.  It was always geared towards my carry firearm which led to more situational training. Now the two can blend much smoother and both are benefitting from it. Granted I train more for sport now. 
 

one day I may be baller enough to carry a staccato and shoot a atlas 

[esajz24]

The Canik Rival seems like the best budget option now.

 

Even as a "budget" option, I don't think it's leaving much on the table. The trigger is excellent out of the box, better than any Walther I tried and probably the best factory striker trigger I've felt. In fact, it's one of the best striker triggers I've ever felt, without caveat. A few months ago I was really impressed with the PDP, but the Rival is better. You can make the M&P trigger excellent with the Apex, or especially Timney, options, but now you are spending more than a Rival. I have not yet felt a Glock trigger that is close, including the Timney. Even the fully worked over 320 triggers are not good (to my preferences). They can be made light, but the trigger pull is basically just creep until the very back of the pull. Weird feeling. 

 

The Rival also seems to have a much more generous opening for magazine insertions. The M&P magwell is small. 

[Brooke]

On 1/30/2022 at 5:11 PM, BamaShooter88 said:

I have always preferred the feel of glocks and cz’s. I really want a shadow 2 but after buying the gun, optic and holster I would be well over $2k. I was thinking canik to get started cheap. I’m afraid I’ll regret it though and wish I had just went with the cz.

 

Getting something that is not your choice because its cheap is not a good idea. It just hastens your next buy.

 

Consider the cost of everything else related to competitive shooting. Ammo, match fees, travel costs for gas and lodging and on and on. The gun is the overall best value . these other costs go on and on.

[ShredderTactical]

Get a gun that is in your budget and one you enjoy shooting!  If you enjoy shooting it then you are more inclined to practice/train...and it's practice/training that leads to improvement.  I shoot a Glock 17 in CO, because I'm a Glock guy and I enjoy shooting the G17.  I've thought about going to a more expensive gun like the cool kids run...but I know that the G17 is not holding me back and I just need to learn how to shoot it better.  Plus, with the G17 I can afford to have two, a primary and a backup gun, so if something happens to my primary I can immediately switch to my backup and finish the match.

[Scotty_JR]

On 2/24/2022 at 5:33 AM, Johnny_Chimpo said:

 

I don't think it is oddball at all.

 

I always match my carry and competition pistols, so the carry gun is the midsized version of the big one.  When I switched from a P-09 to a P-10F for matches, I liked the P-10 so much that I bought a P-10C to replace the P-07 that I was carrying.

 

As you pointed out, there are a lot of upsides to that approach.

When you made the switch, what about the P10F made it decisive enough to completely switch? Currently shooting a P09/SRO and carry a P07/508T. Sometimes I'm curious about changing it up. 

[OpenshooterAclass4lyfe]

The caniks are great budget optic capable guns.    Some of them have went up a good bit in price but I think you could be under a grand possibly with gun and optic 

[Johnny_Chimpo]

5 hours ago, Scotty_JR said:

When you made the switch, what about the P10F made it decisive enough to completely switch? Currently shooting a P09/SRO and carry a P07/508T. Sometimes I'm curious about changing it up. 

 

LOL I went back to the P-09.  Stay where you are.

[ima45dv8]

27 minutes ago, Johnny_Chimpo said:

 

LOL I went back to the P-09.  Stay where you are.

I remember you went back to a Glock pistol not too long ago. You went back to a P-09 after that? Was it the weight?

 

[Johnny_Chimpo]

3 hours ago, ima45dv8 said:

I remember you went back to a Glock pistol not too long ago. You went back to a P-09 after that? Was it the weight?

 

 

Glocks point really well for me but the P-09 is a little more natural with the large backstrap and that single action......

 

And yes, a P-09 is a good 3 - 4 oz heavier than a G-17

Edited April 20, 2022 by Johnny_Chimpo

[WFargo]

yesterday I picked up an old but in good condition CZ SP-01 Shadow and had a Vortex Venom cut into the slide. 

Really soft shooting, and cheap option! 

let's see how long this Vortex Venom is gonna last....

[ShredderTactical]

11 hours ago, WFargo said:

yesterday I picked up an old but in good condition CZ SP-01 Shadow and had a Vortex Venom cut into the slide. 

Really soft shooting, and cheap option! 

let's see how long this Vortex Venom is gonna last....

 

Nothing wrong with the Vortex Venom.  Not the latest greatest shiny object that all the cool kids desire, but very functional and gets the job done with cost and features that other higher priced options still can't beat.  I have 2 Venoms on USPSA CO pistols, another 3 Venoms on Steel Challenge guns, and a few spares sitting on the shelf.  All Red Dots will break, so make sure you use a good manufacturer who stands behind their product and I suggest you have one or more spare Red Dots for when you have a failure and are waiting to get the failed unit repaired/replaced.  In my experience Vortex is one of the best at standing behind their products (see their VIP no questions asked warranty).  I have used their optics for many years in many hard use competition environments, from long range precision rifles, to USPSA and Steel Challenge pistols.  Yes, I have had some problems and failures with their gear, but they have always provided top notch service to repair or replace their products quickly!

[WFargo]

Yeah I heard about their excellent quality service!

The gunsmith who added the dot to my slide had one Venom break and had a new one in the mailbox 4 days later!

And that's here in the Netherlands. 

And his own Vortex Venom, which is on his glock, is running great for a very long time already!

Just to let you guys in on a little secret...  the Vortex Venom is € 299,- and the allmighty Trijicon SRO is € 849,- over here in the Netherlands.....

€ 849,-  for a red dot......   A very good red dot, apparently, but still......

[GoPewPew]

Since you're on a highly specialized gun forum I think it's probably safe to assume you already own some handguns. If budget is the #1 importance and you own something like a glock 19 (or some other common Tupperware gun) you could just buy a optic cut slide. That plus an inexpensive but decent optic like a vortex viper/venom would get you in the game for under $500. 

 

Just another option to consider.  

Edited April 21, 2022 by GoPewPew
Clarify and grammar

[ShredderTactical]

4 hours ago, WFargo said:

Yeah I heard about their excellent quality service!

The gunsmith who added the dot to my slide had one Venom break and had a new one in the mailbox 4 days later!

And that's here in the Netherlands. 

And his own Vortex Venom, which is on his glock, is running great for a very long time already!

Just to let you guys in on a little secret...  the Vortex Venom is € 299,- and the allmighty Trijicon SRO is € 849,- over here in the Netherlands.....

€ 849,-  for a red dot......   A very good red dot, apparently, but still......

I would stick with the Vortex Venom.  Despite all the hype on the internet forums...I recently installed and range tested a SRO on a friends USPSA CO pistol.  I was ready and expecting to be totally impressed and blown away!  Sorry to say, but I was very much less than impressed.  I did not find the window size any better from a practical standpoint compared to my Venom's.  I did not like the 5MOA dot, much prefer the 6MOA dot on the Venom for fast action pistol shooting (wouldn't think 1 MOA would make much difference but the perceived dot size difference, to my eye, was much larger).  I did not like the adjustment buttons at all, thought they were really junk compared to the buttons on the Venom.  What I did not like about the buttons on the SRO is that they give you no tactile feedback (can't hear or feel any click when they activate each time you push) and it was almost painful to press both buttons in order to turn the optic off.  Let the bashing begin but that was my experience.  Only pro I can give the SRO is that it did seem to be built more rugged than the Venom and would likely be a good EDC optic, but I would pick something else for that application given all the negatives I observed.

Edited April 21, 2022 by ShredderTactical
Clarification.

[JGus]

If your budget is up to $1000 on just the gun, I'd recommend buying a Sig X5 Legion.  It's optic ready with a decent trigger out of the box.

[Leezway]

On 6/9/2022 at 12:42 PM, JGus said:

If your budget is up to $1000 on just the gun, I'd recommend buying a Sig X5 Legion.  It's optic ready with a decent trigger out of the box.

Totally agree!  great first gun for CO.   

[Johnny_Chimpo]

On 4/21/2022 at 2:21 PM, ShredderTactical said:

I would stick with the Vortex Venom.  Despite all the hype on the internet forums...I recently installed and range tested a SRO on a friends USPSA CO pistol.  I was ready and expecting to be totally impressed and blown away!  Sorry to say, but I was very much less than impressed.  I did not find the window size any better from a practical standpoint compared to my Venom's.  I did not like the 5MOA dot, much prefer the 6MOA dot on the Venom for fast action pistol shooting (wouldn't think 1 MOA would make much difference but the perceived dot size difference, to my eye, was much larger).  I did not like the adjustment buttons at all, thought they were really junk compared to the buttons on the Venom.  What I did not like about the buttons on the SRO is that they give you no tactile feedback (can't hear or feel any click when they activate each time you push) and it was almost painful to press both buttons in order to turn the optic off.  Let the bashing begin but that was my experience.  Only pro I can give the SRO is that it did seem to be built more rugged than the Venom and would likely be a good EDC optic, but I would pick something else for that application given all the negatives I observed.

That must be why Vortex Venoms (china made junk) are at the top of the list of CO optics

 

Oh wait..............

[Johnny_Chimpo]

On 1/30/2022 at 3:52 PM, BamaShooter88 said:

I am wanting to get a gun for carry optics. I’m hoping to stay under $1k for just the gun itself. I would be willing to spend more if it would make a good difference. What do you recommend and why?

 

I'm gonna have to say that a Canik SFX Rival and an SRO would be an unbeatable CO starter combination.  Both can be had for probably less than $1200

[ShredderTactical]

1 hour ago, Johnny_Chimpo said:

That must be why Vortex Venoms (china made junk) are at the top of the list of CO optics

 

Oh wait..............

Some forum members try to share info based on personal experience in an effort to make this forum a better place for members to hangout.  Some post often just to increase their post count while having little of value to contribute and try to cut down opinions of others they don't agree with.  Sounds like a disgruntled USPSA board or staff member who gets a kickback from Trijicon...

Not a SRO fanboy based on my own experience...but I respect the opinion of those that like to use them.  For the price the Vortex Venom is a great choice for USPSA/Steel Challenge type competitions...again, based on my own experience.  Let the haters hate...

Edited June 12, 2022 by ShredderTactical

[obsessiveshooter]

When you can get a 6moa Venom on sale from PSA for well under $200, it's hard to imagine spending 2-3x on another dot for the slight gain. 

I'm waiting on PSA to release the full size Dagger model. It'll likely be optic ready for under $400. I can tell from the shape that It would feel great to handle.  

[motosapiens]

4 hours ago, obsessiveshooter said:

When you can get a 6moa Venom on sale from PSA for well under $200, it's hard to imagine spending 2-3x on another dot for the slight gain. 

I'm waiting on PSA to release the full size Dagger model. It'll likely be optic ready for under $400. I can tell from the shape that It would feel great to handle.  

you would think that, but having tried the venom 3moa, and having tried the DPP (which I got a killer deal on), it's literally worth almost twice as much for a sig romeo3. It shouldn't cost that much, and it hurts my feelings that it does cost that much, but the dot is so much brighter, crisper and more versatile that it seems stupid to me to try to save $300-400 on the dot and spend a couple K to go to a match with worse equipment.

 

That may just be my particular eyes and brain that find it to be a major difference tho, so if you shoot the same with either one, then sure, run the less expensive one. I tried to talk myself into it for like a year by telling my wife "christian won every area match and nationals with this dot, so it can't be a disadvantage".... But everytime I tried my wife's gun (with the sig dot) I was like 'damn, I need this dot'. It's much easier for me to process the sig dot in my peripheral vision while staying in target focus, so I can just shoot faster with the same accuracy.

[Dr_Z]

I think the new Canik rival is a great pick for budget CO setup, like everyone has suggested. I used to have a pair of Canik TP9 SFX, I regret selling them. The rival improved significantly upon already excellent SFX. If I have to pick one thing that I don't like about the Rival, its the trigger reach. With flat trigger, the initial trigger reach is a little too long for my hand size.  

[Myopic]

Based on overall value , I’d go with a Canik Rival and buy 2 lol ! I compete with a Sig Max and with an OR S2 . But I think the standard OR P10F is an overlooked do all pistol at a great price as well . The PDP SD Pro looks like another do all that can flex between IDPA and USPSA. I have most of the pistols being discussed apart from the G34 as I shoot IPSC and G34’s are not allowed in Production Optics. But there’s guys who kill it with a G17 MOS . As always , it all comes down to the shooter and how much you train in the end anyway. 

[Myopic]

I just picked one of these in Canada - see pic - couldn’t copy link for some reason 

A FS OR slide on a TXG grip with a Romeo 1 Pro included 

I doubt this comes with the Sig grip weight but you could add that later 

It’ll have a captured spring unlike the X5 Legion but I have a TXG build with an OR Pro Cut slide on a TXG grip with an Xseries FCU and it’s great IMO. 

The  P320 world is an ever evolving platform . I like the simple modularity and the performance is all there too. 
Extended mag releases are recommended for competition .

I’d also change the OEM takedown levers for AC extended versions as the OEM’s can break eventually and it’s a PITA. 

[Zachjet]

5” core M&p 

holoson dot 

Timney trigger