Would you rather shoot Limited major with 16 rounds or Limited Min0r with 23 rounds?

[Tanders]

Obviously either one is worse than shooting a .40 gun with 21 rounds, but I'm interested in whether people think you would gain more of a benefit from Major PF scoring or from having an extra 7 rounds. Kind of like a more extreme version of Single Stack major vs. minor.

[Tanders]

_

Edited January 25, 2022 by Tanders
Fixed the thread title

[outerlimits]

go away

[B585]

I tend to be hoser so I would go with 40 and 16.  More accurate shooters may disagree

[Kwontanamo]

major. i know i'll throw a round or two into the C zone and that major PF forgiveness is pretty nice. 

[belus]

I'd take 1 to 2 reloads per stage over 0 to 1 reloads per stage, so 16 major.

[Shootfstr]

Hoser 16 Major.... Although shooting minor the past year alpha count has increased, even after moving back to major.

[Tanders]

6 hours ago, belus said:

I'd take 1 to 2 reloads per stage over 0 to 1 reloads per stage, so 16 major.

Yeah, it seems like you can easily offset the extra reload since you can be a lot more aggressive when shooting major.

[X5SigChris]

When I got into the sport years ago the friend that got me into it had me start in major. I didn’t understand all the rules at the time but understanding “easier scoring” made sense to me. Now, about to get into CO for the first time next month I’ll let you know how bad I needed them extra points hahaha. Maybe I’ll run a el pres side by side and calculate my HF and see the differences between the two. 

[dansedgli]

How close are you to winning matches? 

 

 

Edited January 27, 2022 by dansedgli

[waktasz]

major

 

[Sinister4]

9mm minor, but all I ever load is 9mm  be interesting to allow a 9mm major load   

 

For top level shooters  major 

Edited January 27, 2022 by Sinister4
added opinion

[Cuz]

I’d go minor, but just because I’m geared up for 9mm as I’ve shot Production for quite a while and am now switching to CO due to poor eyesight. I enjoy shooting 9 over 45. 

[waktasz]

That's not really answering the question. He's asking what do you think is better from a scoring perspective, not what reloading setup do you have

[shred]

Unless the round count is very low as in Revo, extra rounds don't make up for the movement options Major allows.

 

Top level shooters:

 

Major Pistol and sometimes an extra reload beats Minor Rifle.  see: PCC+Open Nats overalls.  

 

Major Iron Sights beats Minor Optics with a few more rounds.  see: CO+Lim Nats overalls.

[warpspeed]

A 7 round handicap is pretty big.  With 23 rounds there aren't too many stages requiring more than 1 reload and many with none.

 

16 rounds in the mag will mean a reload for sure and maybe 2. 

 

If you can reload on the move, the 16 major is probably a better bet than the 23 minor but if there are 2 standing reloads, it will come down to your skill set.

 

 

[motosapiens]

30 minutes ago, warpspeed said:

 

If you can reload on the move, the 16 major is probably a better bet than the 23 minor but if there are 2 standing reloads, it will come down to your skill set.

if you have a standing reload with 16 rounds, either you did something horribly wrong, or the stage is horribly dumb and possibly illegal. I've yet to see a stage at a *real* match where a standing reload made sense for anything more than 8-round divisions.

 

The thing about reloads is that the people who win matches are also pretty darned good at reloads, so reducing the number of reloads very rarely makes much of a difference, and even then it's likely to be very small. OTOH, unless your stage is all zebras and steel, major/minor makes a difference all the time.

[Racinready300ex]

1 hour ago, motosapiens said:

if you have a standing reload with 16 rounds, either you did something horribly wrong, or the stage is horribly dumb and possibly illegal. I've yet to see a stage at a *real* match where a standing reload made sense for anything more than 8-round divisions.

 

The thing about reloads is that the people who win matches are also pretty darned good at reloads, so reducing the number of reloads very rarely makes much of a difference, and even then it's likely to be very small. OTOH, unless your stage is all zebras and steel, major/minor makes a difference all the time.

 

I've not shot low cap in a few years now. But I've defiantly stood in place and shot more than 16 shots on a couple stages at level 2 matches in the past few years. 10 to 12 shots in one place is almost normal. But there are always ways to avoid it by adding another position, or shooting more targets somewhere else. Some of those a standing reload might of made sense. 

 

Not saying I like that, just that I see it.

[Racinready300ex]

I'd shoot major. It takes a lot to offset that scoring. If I shot minor it'd be because I just wanted to shoot minor, not because I thought it had a advantage. 

[pjb45]

I have seen this play out in reality:

Mid Coast Dual Championship at Hogue Range many years ago.  Taran shot SS major (8 rounds were the max back then) Dave S shot Production with 10 rounds.

The difference in the points were dramatic.  Dave said because he had two extra rounds he was able to take more risks.  I think at that match more than 60% of the targets had some sort of cover (no shoot or hard).

Years later at Area 2, several SS shot minor.  The insurance of two extra rounds helped with taking risks---for those unfamiliar with the A2/Desert Classic there are many difficult stages that require risk/reward analyses.  A statement from a M class shooter was "I don't shoot 9 any faster than my 40, it was having the extra rounds.  Many swingers in that match inspired anxiety  .

 

All in all kind of a dumb question IMO.

 

[motosapiens]

1 hour ago, pjb45 said:

I have seen this play out in reality:

Mid Coast Dual Championship at Hogue Range many years ago.  Taran shot SS major (8 rounds were the max back then) Dave S shot Production with 10 rounds.

The difference in the points were dramatic. 

 

 

to be fair, Dave is a much better shooter than Taran, at least he has been in the time I've been in the sport (since 2012).

[pjb45]

1 hour ago, motosapiens said:

 

to be fair, Dave is a much better shooter than Taran, at least he has been in the time I've been in the sport (since 2012).

To be fair? 

How many different shooting disciplines does Dave shoot? The breadth and depth of Taran's skill is well documented Dave's is not well known.

I believe one year Taran won something like 15 guns across all disciplines.

 

The point of the thread was mag capacity not who is a better(?) shooter.

Edited January 28, 2022 by pjb45

[motosapiens]

2 hours ago, pjb45 said:

To be fair? 

How many different shooting disciplines does Dave shoot? The breadth and depth of Taran's skill is well documented Dave's is not well known.

I believe one year Taran won something like 15 guns across all disciplines.

 

The point of the thread was mag capacity not who is a better(?) shooter.

sure,  but you used an example comparing an elite pistol shooter with a pretty good pistol shooter. it is entirely irrelevant what other disciplines Taran shoots. I would expect dave to beat Taran by 5-10% in any iron sights pistol match in the last 10 years. That pretty much washes out any difference in magazine capacity or major/minor, and it makes your comparison not very valid.

[shred]

Single-stack is the only division allowing Major/Minor where they are remotely competitive with each other.   Even so, the extra 2 rounds (25% more!) is so rarely worth it, it's news when a top SS shooter shoots Minor at a match voluntarily.

 

Harder paper partial and far targets are an advantage with Major because there's a whole lot more scoring area that's worthwhile.  Tons of steel or stages designed by 10-round shooters is where the minor gun works better.

 

 

 

 

[pjb45]

On 1/28/2022 at 4:33 PM, motosapiens said:

sure,  but you used an example comparing an elite pistol shooter with a pretty good pistol shooter. it is entirely irrelevant what other disciplines Taran shoots. I would expect dave to beat Taran by 5-10% in any iron sights pistol match in the last 10 years. That pretty much washes out any difference in magazine capacity or major/minor, and it makes your comparison not very valid.

Are you saying Taran is not an elite pistol shooter?

Is this a conclusion based on evidence and facts?

Did you poll "elite" shooters and they concluded Taran was only a pretty good pistol shooter and not in their class?