Korth Revolvers, I gots questions

[Ben53]

5 hours ago, mikey357 said:

 

While I certainly understand the "Pride of Ownership" thing, I'm not sure I'd agree that a K-80 is "Far Superior" to a Citori--It's certainly a better looking, somewhat more reliable Gun & is more refined, but let's not forget that the greatest Skeet Shooter who ever lived set a LOT of his records with a Remington 3200 & a Winchester 1400, neither of which is anywhere near the level of any of the K-guns, so how much of the "Gilded Lily" does one really need to perform at the highest level?

Back when I was shooting International ("Olympic") trap in Southern California, I saw a good number of very high caliber trap shooters with Kreighoff's, Beretta's, and the like.  The only Browning to "make the grade", as it were, was a Browning Broadway, which I believe was a Superposed model, NOT a Citori.  I started with a Citori, and it was good to see if you liked the game, but it did not have anything like the handling qualities and durability of some of the other brands.  I went to a Beretta 680 Trap (wish I kept it), then a Beretta 682 Trap, then finally to Perazzi MX8.  Like the Kreighoff's, the Perazzi is a top quality shotgun that will last for hundreds of thousands of rounds.  I believe there used to be one at the Army AMU that had a documented 1 million rounds through it... still on the firing line.  

 

To perform "at the highest level" one needs a proper tool.  Check out Olympic shooting history and see how many skeet and trap events have been won by Remington, Winchester and Browning.. 

Edited January 27, 2022 by Ben53

[ysrracer]

8 hours ago, revoman said:

Remington 870 Wingmaster put a lot of birds down and boy did they taste good. These were from turkey’s to quail and everything in between even a few deer. Take this over a Krieghoff or Browning any day of the week. Worked well in sporting clays also and is still working without any rebuild and I have owned it since 1975 as I bought it as a high school graduation present to myself . ✌

 

An 870 is a fine gun. If you enjoy it, that's all that matters.

 

I've never seen a serious sporting clays competitor use a pump gun in a major competition, but I'm sure people do.

[ysrracer]

Ok, here's my update !!

 

One of the old guys I shoot with is a retired doctor, cardiologist I think. Huge gun collection.

 

I told him about my feelings about Korths, and he said he had a few, and would bring one for me to try.

 

Well today he shows up with a Manurhin instead. He goes on and on about it being the finest revolver ever made.

 

I guess I'm not the target demographic. It's a nice gun, but again with a 9-10 pound double action trigger pull. 

 

Everybody that shot it, shot it single action...

 

...except me. I'm an ICORE competitor (or at least I want to be one when I grow up).

 

I don't really get shooting revolvers single action, but different strokes.

 

Maybe I'm looking at Manurhins and Korths wrong. Maybe it's not the tool for the job I have in mind, ICORE matches.

 

Anyhow how, I told him how nice it was, and he was happy.

 

Here's the Holy Grail.

 

.

[ysrracer]

The more I think about it, the more I realize it's not the right tool for the job I'm doing. It looks close, but no cigar.

 

If I needed a Torx driver, and somebody gave me an Allen wrench, it looks close, but no cigar.

[xrayfk05]

13 hours ago, Ben53 said:

To perform "at the highest level" one needs a proper tool.  Check out Olympic shooting history and see how many skeet and trap events have been won by Remington, Winchester and Browning.. 

 

What brands are used at the highest levels are more about sponsorship than anything else. Using that as a base to justify your own purchases is useless, maybe it makes you feel good but that's it. 

Also chances are pretty high they are using custom guns and not off the shelf stuff.

[gargoil66]

4 hours ago, xrayfk05 said:

 

What brands are used at the highest levels are more about sponsorship than anything else. Using that as a base to justify your own purchases is useless, maybe it makes you feel good but that's it. 

Also chances are pretty high they are using custom guns and not off the shelf stuff.

XR: 

 

Nope -- I do not believe so.  They start with a proven design that is dependable and easy for a shooter to use and then modify them to peak out their performance.   There is a lot of risk to a gun company when they sponsor a team.  If the team comes in last place all the time the consumer will use it when they are deciding on which firearm to buy. 

 

GG 

 

[ysrracer]

Let's say you drive a Ferrari (I don't, I drive a Ford Pinto station wagon, but left say you did) and you went to pick up your grandkids. I'm sure a Ferrari is a fine car, but it's the wrong tool for the job.

 

Same thing with a Korth and Man(thing I can't spell). I'm sure they're fine guns, just not the right tool for my job.

[Jim Watson]

I have not even seen a Korth except behind glass.

 

I got all Euro-enthused several years ago and bought a Vienna PD surplus MR73.  It has a nice smooth heavy DA.  Twiddling the twin strain screws on main and rebound springs did not make it any lighter without misfires.

 

I have READ of but not seen:
A MR73 with the action honed like a good S&W.

A MR73 showing action wear after a lot of fast DA.

A Euro-cop saying that the MR73's forte is accurate single action shots, not rapid fire.

 

And just to stir the pot a little, there is another premium European revolver brand, the Spohr.

https://www.fineguns.de/waffentechnik

https://www.all4shooters.com/de/shooting/kurzwaffen/club-30-rlrange-sportrevolver-in-357-magnum-komplette-eigenentwicklung-eigenschaften/

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/916526765

 

It is very S&W inside, Club 30 gunsmiths got their start souping up Smiths.

 

 

 

[Toolguy]

There is also Janz revolver, another German maker, for those on a budget. A very large budget, that is.  https://www.all4shooters.com/en/shooting/pistols/janz-german-made-revolvers/

[ysrracer]

Regarding the pushbutton cylinder release on the Korth, I don't want my cylinder any easier to come out, I want it harder

[MikeBurgess]

14 hours ago, ysrracer said:

 

 

Everybody that shot it, shot it single action...

 

...except me. I'm an ICORE competitor (or at least I want to be one when I grow up).

 

 

.

 

I would not be surprised if 90% + of non duty issued Smith revos have never been shot DA, when it comes to that WE are the weirdos 

 

13 hours ago, ysrracer said:

The more I think about it, the more I realize it's not the right tool for the job I'm doing. It looks close, but no cigar.

 

If I needed a Torx driver, and somebody gave me an Allen wrench, it looks close, but no cigar.

Very well put. 

 

[MHicks]

ICORE and USPSA revolver shooters all shoot double action.  A couple of times I've seen new inexperienced shooters shoot single action at a longer more difficult target at a match.

At a regular handgun range usually the only time I see revolver shooters shoot DA is with a j frame. Rarely do I see someone shoot DA with a full size gun.

[ysrracer]

Shooting a revolver single action is like kissing your sister

[J_Allen]

I have shot a revolver in single action at a USPSA match before - it was one time only, about 5 years ago at a tight head box.

 

So now the caveats - it was my first match, and I was using my Colt Anaconda with speedloaders. Of course major PF.

 

Still won my division (of one) - then I went out and bought a S&W.

[21 shooter]

I got to look at some Korth revolvers a few months ago.  Fit and finish was really nice but the grips looked kind of cheap especially for a $5200 wheel gun.  The gunshop would let you try the trigger on this one as it was a kind of demo model.   I was disappointed, the weight was about average but the action was far from smooth.  I know that can be fixed but for that kind of money you shouldn’t have to.  But they are nice.

[Vic]

Im just going to say, what many are probably thinking. As of yet; there is no better platform, at least for action shooting platforms, than a Smith&Wesson.

  I started serious competitive shooting in 1983, attending my first Steel Challenge match in 1984 at the World Speed Shooting Championship in California, at Wes Thompsons old range in the hills.

  Since that time, and many many, local, state, national and international shooting matches, other than two times have I seen any other brand than S&W being used by competitors. The first Steel Challenge, I saw one Colt Python, a nickel 6" used by a known gun writer of that time frame by the name of Dave Arnold. He was the first shooter to start the match, starting on Speed Option, upon his first draw, the revolver cartwheeled out of his hands and landed in the white alkali dust....instant DQ.

 Only other time I saw an off brand was at one of the IRC championships I attended, it was a nine shot 32 magnum built on a big Tarus frame revolver. To my mind, any other revolver than a S&W is a solution looking for a problem.Obviously, my opinion is worth just what one pays for it.

[matteekay]

On 3/26/2022 at 7:04 PM, Vic said:

To my mind, any other revolver than a S&W is a solution looking for a problem.Obviously, my opinion is worth just what one pays for it.

 

I suffer through shooting an N-Frame in USPSA since I have no option, but I shoot Rhino's in IDPA and ICORE. Quite honestly, it's not because it's a better design; the frame and grip size just fit my smallish hands better. They've been unbelievably reliable and the recoil mitigation is real (more "push", less "flip"), but they're pretty much impossible to tune beyond Chiappa's trigger job given the spring setup. Oh, and the aftermarket is nonexistent beyond paying Protocall to do one-off stuff for me (or paying Aria Ballistic Engineering to convert one... or two... to 10mm).  

 

I played with the new Manurhin at IDPA Nationals. I really liked it but couldn't tell you why; it just felt like a well put-together revo with a good (by non-competition standards) double action trigger. Not gonna sell off anything to get one but I'd consider it if I had money to burn one day.

[RJH]

If you want a high end revolver, you buy a freedom arms. You want a solid double action revolver for USPSA, you buy a Smith & Wesson. That's pretty much it, everything else is just fluff, except maybe a bfr

[DDave]

I've shot quiet a few Korths and I will tell you they are nice, very nice, but nothing that special. The people that I know that have them more fall into the, it costs more so it must me exponentially better crowd. I would never buy one, but if you gave me one I wouldn't sell it.  

[Jim Watson]

On 3/26/2022 at 8:04 PM, Vic said:

The first Steel Challenge, I saw one Colt Python, a nickel 6" used by a known gun writer of that time frame by the name of Dave Arnold. He was the first shooter to start the match, starting on Speed Option, upon his first draw, the revolver cartwheeled out of his hands and landed in the white alkali dust....instant DQ.

I don't understand, you mean he would not have dropped a Smith?

I shot on Dave's squad at the first IDPA Nationals.  He had a Smith in a pancake holster and speed loaders in his pockets.

[Jim Watson]

On 1/27/2022 at 10:18 PM, ysrracer said:

Ok, here's my update !!

 

One of the old guys I shoot with is a retired doctor, cardiologist I think. Huge gun collection.

 

I told him about my feelings about Korths, and he said he had a few, and would bring one for me to try.

 

Well today he shows up with a Manurhin instead. He goes on and on about it being the finest revolver ever made.

 

I guess I'm not the target demographic. It's a nice gun, but again with a 9-10 pound double action trigger pull. 

 

Everybody that shot it, shot it single action...

 

...except me. I'm an ICORE competitor (or at least I want to be one when I grow up).

 

I don't really get shooting revolvers single action, but different strokes.

 

Maybe I'm looking at Manurhins and Korths wrong. Maybe it's not the tool for the job I have in mind, ICORE matches.

 

Anyhow how, I told him how nice it was, and he was happy.

 

Here's the Holy Grail.

 

.

 

That is a dedicated ISU, now ISSF gun.  .32 Wadcutter automatics are popular but there are some who stick to revolvers for reliability.  

The match as I recall has two phases:  Precision - slow fire on a bullseye a la NRA; and what they used to call "The Duel" although I am sure they have a more politically correct name now.  One shot at a time on a turning target; three seconds up, seven seconds away, repeat for 5 shots per string.  Plenty of time to cock for SA.   

[hearthco]

On 1/26/2022 at 9:09 AM, Toolguy said:

Yes, but it's a very smooth 9 pound trigger. Kind of like saying, but its a dry heat, when it's 105 degrees...

[varminter22]

On 1/27/2022 at 11:30 AM, revoman said:

Remington 870 Wingmaster put a lot of birds down and boy did they taste good. These were from turkey’s to quail and everything in between even a few deer. Take this over a Krieghoff or Browning any day of the week. Worked well in sporting clays also and is still working without any rebuild and I have owned it since 1975 as I bought it as a high school graduation present to myself . ✌

Agreed.  I have my Dad's Wingmaster that he bought new in 1953.  I shot it a LOT in my youth.  Still enjoy shooting it occasionally.  Also have a new Wingmaster with a 3" chamber that I use for coyote calling.  

 

I'll concede that a high end shotgun will likely withstand much more shooting, but for my purposes I like the Wingmaster.