135gr vs 147 CZ S2

[chgofirefighter]

For those that shoot 147gr through their S2's have you tried 135gr?  If so, is there any dicernable difference between the two grains?  Normally, I only shoot 125gr TC BB, but I tried some ammo that was given to me for free, about 100 rounds from a friend that loads specifically only 147gr bullets, during a match I tried his loads and for a second I thought, wow, these are nice.  Nice recoil impulse, soft, but the only thing that I didn't like is that the slide felt sluggished, returning back to target.  I would love to experiment with a different grain in 9mm, maybe 127gr or 135, I'm sure 127gr wouldn't make much of a difference...  I like the feel of the 147, but I'll be nice to have the slide cycle just a bit faster, but not as fast as the 125...  

 

Thoughts?  Thanks in advance~ 

[Rnlinebacker]

I like 124s and 115s in minor. The sights snap right back into place.

 

The 147s feel softer but sights take longer to return. I would stay right where you are

[Boomstick303]

If you want to get rid of the sluggishness of the 147 gr bullets you would have to up the powder charge, then you are right back to your 125 gr impulse, or close to it.  

 

Before you decide to play too much, think about what you are noticing when you are in the course of fire.  So many people make all these observations when testing ammo because that is the only thing they are concentrating on.  Once that buzzer goes off they could not tell you the specifics of what the gun was doing or how it felt in most instances.  I know I wasted way to much time on creating a powder puff loads only to realize later that my guns preferred higher velocity ammo so I reverted back to 124/125 gr bullets, with a higher powder load to obtain those velocities.  Plus I never worry about passing Chrono at any event.

 

If you do not have issues with your current ammo, I would not switch.  People chase ammo, impulse crap way too much imho.  Grip the gun and shoot. It is my opinion the time spent dry firing and/or training is a better utilization of time.

[chgofirefighter]

1 hour ago, Boomstick303 said:

If you want to get rid of the sluggishness of the 147 gr bullets you would have to up the powder charge, then you are right back to your 125 gr impulse, or close to it.  

 

Before you decide to play too much, think about what you are noticing when you are in the course of fire.  So many people make all these observations when testing ammo because that is the only thing they are concentrating on.  Once that buzzer goes off they could not tell you the specifics of what the gun was doing or how it felt in most instances.  I know I wasted way to much time on creating a powder puff loads only to realize later that my guns preferred higher velocity ammo so I reverted back to 124/125 gr bullets, with a higher powder load to obtain those velocities.  Plus I never worry about passing Chrono at any event.

 

If you do not have issues with your current ammo, I would not switch.  People chase ammo, impulse crap way too much imho.  Grip the gun and shoot. It is my opinion the time spent dry firing and/or training is a better utilization of time.

 

I've been using124/25gr for the past 3 years, just wanted to see if I could experiment a bit and get some opinions, since I fell in love with the 147's just didn't like the sluggishness of the 147's but they felt extremely good and you're right, once the buzzer goes off you're not even concerned about felt recoil, pulse, etc. Since I've never tried 135 gr, in the S2, wanted to get some opinions/feedback.  See what the consensus was~  Looking to see what others have to say, and I appreciate your feedback... 

[Boomstick303]

1 hour ago, chgofirefighter said:

Since I've never tried 135 gr

 

135gr is what you expect.  It splits the middle.  I know many that run it and like it.  To me, they were no different than running 124/125 gr once the buzzer went off.  It then becomes a matter of economics for me.  124/125 gr are cheaper per bullet.  The difference in powder does not affect the cost per round as much as the lead. 

 

If you are curious load some up.  Let me know and I and give  you a stating point if you use Sport pistol.  

[chgofirefighter]

8 hours ago, Boomstick303 said:

 

135gr is what you expect.  It splits the middle.  I know many that run it and like it.  To me, they were no different than running 124/125 gr once the buzzer went off.  It then becomes a matter of economics for me.  124/125 gr are cheaper per bullet.  The difference in powder does not affect the cost per round as much as the lead. 

 

If you are curious load some up.  Let me know and I and give  you a stating point if you use Sport pistol.  

Thanks brother, and yes I use Sport Pistol, whats a good starting point to load 135gr? 

[Boomstick303]

3 hours ago, chgofirefighter said:

whats a good starting point to load 135gr? 

 

Using a Sig X5 (5" barrel) I was getting a tick under 135 PF using 3.7 gr of Sport Pistol, with an OAL of 1.30.  

[chgofirefighter]

22 minutes ago, Boomstick303 said:

 

Using a Sig X5 (5" barrel) I was getting a tick under 135 PF using 3.7 gr of Sport Pistol, with an OAL of 1.30.  

Using my S2, I'm getting 131 PF with 3.8 using 125gr...  Thanks, I was thinking that it would require a lil bit less powder....   Very interesting!

[Boomstick303]

2 hours ago, chgofirefighter said:

125gr

 

Would suggest you are using coated bullets. If that is the case the PF should be similar when you load 135 gr to 3.7 gr. to get 135 PF I was getting I would think. Typically with coated bullets, I get 2-2.5 change in PF for each 0.1 grain change in either direction. 

 

If you want the same PF of 132, 3.6 gr of Sport Pistol with the 135gr bullet should get you there, if it’s a coated bullet. 

 

A couple of of things to keep in mind is Sport Pistol is reverse temperature sensitive. So increase in environmental temp PF goes down. One of the reasons I load to 135 is so I don’t ever have to worry about Chrono, especially when traveling down south in the summer.  If using a copper jacketed, or plated bullet I will increase powder load 0.1 gr to get the same PF as the coated bullet. 

 

If your our current AMMO is not @ a 1.130 OAL, I would just load to you normal OAL.  CZs tend to run a shorter OAL from what I understand. 

Edited January 15, 2022 by Boomstick303

[chgofirefighter]

5 hours ago, Boomstick303 said:

 

Would suggest you are using coated bullets. If that is the case the PF should be similar when you load 135 gr to 3.7 gr. to get 135 PF I was getting I would think. Typically with coated bullets, I get 2-2.5 change in PF for each 0.1 grain change in either direction. 

 

If you want the same PF of 132, 3.6 gr of Sport Pistol with the 135gr bullet should get you there, if it’s a coated bullet. 

 

A couple of of things to keep in mind is Sport Pistol is reverse temperature sensitive. So increase in environmental temp PF goes down. One of the reasons I load to 135 is so I don’t ever have to worry about Chrono, especially when traveling down south in the summer.  If using a copper jacketed, or plated bullet I will increase powder load 0.1 gr to get the same PF as the coated bullet. 

 

If your our current AMMO is not @ a 1.130 OAL, I would just load to you normal OAL.  CZs tend to run a shorter OAL from what I understand. 

 

 

Yes, I'm using coated bullets... Blue Bullets to to be exact, I run at 1.130 OAL, and they run perfectfly fine in both of my CZ's and other platforms, I see you load your ammo to give you 135 PF, normally, I try to stay in the range of 130/1 PF, coated bullets tends to give you a bit more PF.  I truly haven't noticed much changed in the summer weather with my ammo when I chrono, but then again, I haven't checked during trully hot summer days so thats my next experiment in the to do list for summer, test ammo during hot weather to document changes.  A friend of mine was telling me that when he was using 135gr his point of aim and point of impact were slightly different than the 147gr, point of impact dropped. Have you experienced that anamoly? Thanks again~ 

[Guitarmageddon]

I ran the 135 TC in .356 from blues. I found it to be a great middle ground and it was inclined to feel a bit more "147" but returned to battery quite nicely. Id load more if my p07 didnt lead so much with .356. 

[Boomstick303]

2 hours ago, chgofirefighter said:

Have you experienced that anamoly?

 

The load I gave you was based on Gallant 135gr coated bullets so if you are looking for that 130/1 PF I would load up some at 3.5 and 3.6 gr and see what that gets you. 

 

With my X5/ X5 Legions I always double check POI if I change ammo, I have yet run into a load and bullet weight that has the same POI with the X5. Its been well documented that some X5 Legions do not like subsonic 147gr, so groupings generally suck with those bullets. It was not until I increased velocity and had a PF of around 138-140 that the 147 gr bullets had acceptable groups. 

 

Now, with my Athena it does not matter what bullet weight and/or powder weight I run through it.  POI is just about the same with all of them and it groups a ragged hole at 10yds if I am on point. It’s retarded how accurate that gun is as I imagine most 2011s are. 

 

The CZ may not have the POI issue since the rail system is more similar to a 2011 than plastic guns. 

 

As as far as the reverse temp sensitive nature of Sport Pistol goes, I loaded ammo for PCC Nats a couple of years ago with the PF of around 130 in Colorado @ around 75 F and barely passed chrono in Florida in June. Hence the reason I load everything to 135 PF now.  I never worry about chrono now. I have also noted my X5s run better with a heavier recoil spring and higher PF.

 

A good way to test temp sensitivity is chrono the ammo at room temp 70F, then leave it in the dash of your car to heat up. Then chrono that ammo and compare. That way you do not have to make two trips for testing. 

[chgofirefighter]

14 hours ago, Boomstick303 said:

 

The load I gave you was based on Gallant 135gr coated bullets so if you are looking for that 130/1 PF I would load up some at 3.5 and 3.6 gr and see what that gets you. 

 

With my X5/ X5 Legions I always double check POI if I change ammo, I have yet run into a load and bullet weight that has the same POI with the X5. Its been well documented that some X5 Legions do not like subsonic 147gr, so groupings generally suck with those bullets. It was not until I increased velocity and had a PF of around 138-140 that the 147 gr bullets had acceptable groups. 

 

Now, with my Athena it does not matter what bullet weight and/or powder weight I run through it.  POI is just about the same with all of them and it groups a ragged hole at 10yds if I am on point. It’s retarded how accurate that gun is as I imagine most 2011s are. 

 

The CZ may not have the POI issue since the rail system is more similar to a 2011 than plastic guns. 

 

As as far as the reverse temp sensitive nature of Sport Pistol goes, I loaded ammo for PCC Nats a couple of years ago with the PF of around 130 in Colorado @ around 75 F and barely passed chrono in Florida in June. Hence the reason I load everything to 135 PF now.  I never worry about chrono now. I have also noted my X5s run better with a heavier recoil spring and higher PF.

 

A good way to test temp sensitivity is chrono the ammo at room temp 70F, then leave it in the dash of your car to heat up. Then chrono that ammo and compare. That way you do not have to make two trips for testing. 

Great stuff, thanks brother....  

[chgofirefighter]

15 hours ago, Guitarmageddon said:

I ran the 135 TC in .356 from blues. I found it to be a great middle ground and it was inclined to feel a bit more "147" but returned to battery quite nicely. Id load more if my p07 didnt lead so much with .356. 

What powder were you using?  Details, plz 

[Guitarmageddon]

9 hours ago, chgofirefighter said:

What powder were you using?  Details, plz 

Here is a snip from my loading log. I thought I had done more powders but apparently just hp38. Both made power factor without stretching it much at all, the powder did it nicely. With a longer barrel aka shadow 2/TS2 etc, 3.6 would definitely be the ticket I think, if good PF is your goal


And the real world results were damn close to the simulation in GRT. Dont mind the listing for bayou in there, I had to use that entry to modify for my blues projectile specs. 

It was just as soft a shooter as 147s. I think the 135 is a great choice middle ground. Right around 70% case fill for both weights tested by the way. 

Edited January 16, 2022 by Guitarmageddon

[chgofirefighter]

On 1/16/2022 at 10:02 AM, Guitarmageddon said:

Here is a snip from my loading log. I thought I had done more powders but apparently just hp38. Both made power factor without stretching it much at all, the powder did it nicely. With a longer barrel aka shadow 2/TS2 etc, 3.6 would definitely be the ticket I think, if good PF is your goal


And the real world results were damn close to the simulation in GRT. Dont mind the listing for bayou in there, I had to use that entry to modify for my blues projectile specs. 

It was just as soft a shooter as 147s. I think the 135 is a great choice middle ground. Right around 70% case fill for both weights tested by the way. 

Thanks~  

 

I need to do my own research but this helps a lot~!  Thank you 

[motosapiens]

On 1/14/2022 at 4:58 AM, Rnlinebacker said:

I like 124s and 115s in minor. The sights snap right back into place.

 

The 147s feel softer but sights take longer to return. I would stay right where you are

 

This ^^.   Don't go on how it *feels*. put it on the timer. Or just shoot 115's and buy more bullets for the same price (that's what I do).