Bullets tippy on my 1050 + M7 Autodrive

[kmc]

I have a 1050 with a recently-installed Mark 7 Autodrive that has been running 9mm/124 jhp major loads mostly without issue for maybe 3,000 rounds. The last couple of days, I decided to setup another toolhead for my 40 rounds. In addition to the new toolhead + caliber conversion, I mostly moved the die/MBF/etc over from my 650, where it has been working (manually) for 2+ years and has loaded somewhere north of 30K rounds. After moving everything over to my 1050, it seemed to basically work but I noticed there was a lot of wobbling movement of the cases+bullet after MBF dropping the bullet and moving to seating. Most rounds seemed to stay but occasionally a bullet tipped over in the seating station (after the M7 bullet detector correctly saw it but before the seating die got to the round, resulting in trashed brass and lead. I found that most rounds seemed to be seated well into the brass--I could not spin them in the case and you had pull the bullet out to separate the bullet from the case. I'm using cleaned and roll-sized but unsorted range brass.

 

I have come to the conclusion that the bullets are not seated well enough after the MBF dropper station. I made sure 1) my station 3 hold-down die was set as deep as possible in the case, helping the brass expansion as much as it could; 2) I tried more (and less) bell from the MBF funnel in the powder drop station, ensuring that I went at, above, and below the DP recommended ~.020"; 3) added AA spring tension to the MBF tube and adjusted the MBF die and the spring tension to various settings; 4) adjusted the M7 index speed down trying to avoid the wobbling and tipping. None of these adjustments were able to address the problem completely. I did change out the DP brass pins in the MBF and Seating stations for a set of aftermarket rubber "wheels", which significantly stabilized the round, largely eliminating the wobble. However, the failures continue, albeit at a lower rate.

 

It seems to me that I need to a) seat the MBF bullet into the brass more deeply or b) expand the brass further to allow a deeper seating. The primary option I'm considering is adding a Lyman "M" die to further expand the case, allowing the bullet to seat deeper. Is there some other option or adjustment that I'm missing to better set the bullet sufficiently deep in the case? Ideas?

[AHI]

Add zip ties between bullet drop station and seating station. I would add them to all the stations. This will cut down on case wobble. . When you automate there is often a lot of little issues not one big one . That needs to be addressed. Don't be afraid to slightly over flare your cases. I tend to get better results from https://www.photoescapeinc.com/products/powder-funnel.html on expansion. ( gave link to his basic units/ he has specialty units)

[kmc]

10 minutes ago, AHI said:

Add zip ties between bullet drop station and seating station. I would add them to all the stations. This will cut down on case wobble. .

Thanks but I don't understand the zip ties portion of your comment. Add zip ties???

[Don_B]

What has caused these same problems for me is a worn out powder funnel. 

There is a shoulder just below the flare part of the funnel. When this wears out the bullet will not set down in the case correctly. The bullet will wobble and sometimes fall off the case. I also had many more rounds fail to case gauge because they would not be straight when seated. 

 

 

[SnipTheDog]

This guy has a solution where he adds a spring loaded stabilizer:  Link

See if this might work.

[AHI]

[kmc]

33 minutes ago, AHI said:

Ahh, now I see. Interesting approach

[kmc]

3 hours ago, Don_B said:

What has caused these same problems for me is a worn out powder funnel. 

There is a shoulder just below the flare part of the funnel. When this wears out the bullet will not set down in the case correctly. The bullet will wobble and sometimes fall off the case. I also had many more rounds fail to case gauge because they would not be straight when seated. 

 

 

I did order a fresh powder funnel thinking it might help, so I’ll get to test this one out.

[mveto]

You could always try the ffb swage backup/case expander rod. It’s a much better expander/hold down than the factory, I can use the Dillon universal powder funnel and flare to .383 and get no bullets tumbling after the MBF. It’s been great so far.

 

https://fastandfriendlybrass.com/shop/category.aspx?catid=23

Edited December 21, 2021 by mveto

[sauza45]

I have not had good luck with the MBF powder funnel. I use the Dillon power funnel and don't have any tipping. I also use the Dillon swager die in station 3

[Baragasam]

Another thing I would want to mention is to slow down the indexing speed too. I hand crank and when I index too quick I would run into a similar problem as you. 

[RePete]

On 12/21/2021 at 9:25 AM, sauza45 said:

I have not had good luck with the MBF powder funnel. I use the Dillon power funnel and don't have any tipping. I also use the Dillon swager die in station 3

Some people are using the Uniquetek powder funnel.

 

https://www.uniquetek.com/product/T1582

[Baragasam]

How do people feel about using the Lyman universal expanding die on the station before the powder drop and after the priming station?

[ddc]

2 hours ago, Baragasam said:

How do people feel about using the Lyman universal expanding die on the station before the powder drop and after the priming station?

 

Not sure what you are referring to. There is no station between the priming station and the powder drop.

 

Perhaps you are thinking of the aftermarket tool heads on which the primer station is threaded for a die?

 

If that is the case then I have used both the Lyman  M die and the Redding Premium expander die there.

They work as you would expect although the primer slide actuator mounting bracket needed a little clearance work on my machine.

 

[Baragasam]

2 minutes ago, ddc said:

 

Not sure what you are referring to. There is no station between the priming station and the powder drop.

 

Perhaps you are thinking of the aftermarket tool heads on which the primer station is threaded for a die?

 

If that is the case then I have used both the Lyman  M die and the Redding Premium expander die there.

They work as you would expect although the primer slide actuator mounting bracket needed a little clearance work on my machine.

 

 

I forgot this was a 1050 question while I was thinking of a Evo  but yes. 

[ddc]

2 hours ago, Baragasam said:

 

I forgot this was a 1050 question while I was thinking of a Evo  but yes. 

 

Gotcha, lol. I've tried both the MBF powder funnel in the powder measure and using it as a stand alone expander and also the previously indicated stand alone expander dies.

 

I think the stand alone expander dies do a better job. I just started using it but I'm particularly liking the Redding die so far.

[kmc]

15 hours ago, Baragasam said:

 

I forgot this was a 1050 question while I was thinking of a Evo  but yes. 

I do have an aftermarket toolhead with threaded hole above primer station and was planning to do just this. I just haven't gotten that far yet. Some good suggestions here.

[Baragasam]

15 hours ago, ddc said:

 

Gotcha, lol. I've tried both the MBF powder funnel in the powder measure and using it as a stand alone expander and also the previously indicated stand alone expander dies.

 

I think the stand alone expander dies do a better job. I just started using it but I'm particularly liking the Redding die so far.

 

100% agreed. The MBF wears out quick I find. Also, using the Mark 7/Lyman powder hopper to also expand was not a good idea. The bolts connecting to the actuating arms to the powder drum snapped on me. I know this is unrelated to the Dillon but just worth mentioning that their hardware isn't the greatest and Mark 7 wasn't willing to warranty the issue....so I got Lowe's grade 8's LOL

[Baragasam]

@ddc also, it is generally a good rule of thumb to let the powder drop station do only a singular task and leave the expanding for another station/another die as this would separate tasks, create less margin of error and also would be more cost efficient to use a separate die instead of getting special powder funnels. 

[Ryan67]

The SSI alpha powder drop could help with your issue. A little better quality than the standard bullet feeder drop and coated for slick surface and long life so it doesn't pop when releasing.

[ddc]

5 hours ago, Baragasam said:

@ddc also, it is generally a good rule of thumb to let the powder drop station do only a singular task and leave the expanding for another station/another die as this would separate tasks, create less margin of error and also would be more cost efficient to use a separate die instead of getting special powder funnels. 

 

And it is a whole lot easier to adjust your flare with a stand alone die compared to futzing around with adjusting the powder dropper die. 

 

[Baragasam]

7 hours ago, ddc said:

 

And it is a whole lot easier to adjust your flare with a stand alone die compared to futzing around with adjusting the powder dropper die. 

 

yes sir

[kmc]

Thanks for all the suggestions. I now have it running. It may not yet be in final form, but it will now crank out rounds at 2500/hr. I implemented a couple of options above and may implement a couple more. However, the key change was the powder funnel. I simply upgraded to a new MBF powder funnel. The crazy part was that my mic did not see much difference between the old MBF and new MBF funnels but dropping in the new one solved the problem completely. In retrospect, what is interesting is this same setup in my 650 with MBF but with a manual handle was also tipping bullets off the shell on occasion. If I didn't keep an eye on it, it would make a mess of my finished rounds bin since I was using a seat/crimp die due to my use of a powder check. If you want to see video of the current setup and summary, you can find it here ==>

 

Edited December 25, 2021 by kmc
typo

[ddc]

2500/hour is very respectable. 

 

[Nc1911]

On 12/22/2021 at 10:37 AM, RePete said:

Some people are using the Uniquetek powder funnel.

 

https://www.uniquetek.com/product/T1582

  This is a big help