Jump to content
Brian Enos's Forums... Maku mozo!

"Which is more important - speed, or accuracy?"


UpYoursPal

Recommended Posts

  • Replies 86
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

All of the raw scoring data exists on Practiscore for everyone to examine and research. Look at the scoring data of the top 3 - 5 in each division for Area and National level matches. That raw data tells you EXACTLY what is needed from an "Acceptable Captured Points", "Hit Factor biased points captured" and "Acceptable Penalties" wise to WIN MAJOR MATCHES.

 

Do your own research to formulate an informed answer for yourself.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, obsessiveshooter said:

I'm not taking that class!  I imagine trying to tell my wife I want to spend $200 to spend the weekend with X trainer learning to move better, then my wife looks up that person's instagram...

me neither.... plus my wife moves better (and shoots better).

 

In all seriousness, i'm not sure movement is really rocket surgery, at least for normal semi-athletic people. They mostly just need to move HARD frequently enough in training and dryfire that it's subconscious. Also, as you can see from watching any supersquad, you don't have to have cornerback's agility to move quickly. Mostly you just need to start moving earlier, and then start shooting earlier when you get somewhere. Most anyone can improve on this with a timer and some video, and maybe a friend to point out when you are lollygagging.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

24 minutes ago, motosapiens said:

Most anyone can improve on this with a timer and some video, and maybe a friend to point out when you are lollygagging.

 

I actually think that is the key.  Rather than the capcams a lot use, I'm going to start asking my buddies to record video of the stage on my phone.  Lots of people do that.  I'm so visually oriented, seeing what I did would be a big help.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, zzt said:

 

I actually think that is the key.  Rather than the capcams a lot use, I'm going to start asking my buddies to record video of the stage on my phone.  Lots of people do that.  I'm so visually oriented, seeing what I did would be a big help.

for about the last year, after just about every match, I spend a few minutes reviewing the videos mrs moto takes of me, looking for slowness, inefficiency, wasted time, over-aiming, etc... I try to find things to focus on for the following week's dryfire (and live fire, if time/ammo allows).

 

We have a couple high-level shooters locally (top 20-25 at nationals level), and if they post vid of the same stages, it can help illuminate the places I need more work. Obviously I should expect them to be 5-10% faster than me in general, but when they are *way* faster at a particular thing, it makes me feel like I am underperforming that thing, and should work on it so it's less of a weakness.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

29 minutes ago, obsessiveshooter said:

Which class was it? I'm hoping it's not the one we're joking about.  

 

Yes.  It was.  He found it helpful.  He was already lightning fast on his feet, but his times got better after the class.  She may not be able to shoot, but evidently she has something to offer on lines,  approaches, departures and transitions.   

 

I wouldn't know.  I didn't take the class.  I figured, for me, it would be a waste of $200.  I'm 74 (72 at the time) with ankle, foot and knee problems.  I mostly hobble from position to position, because I'm scared to death my left ankle will give out and I'll take a tumble. So far it hasn't happened.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

16 hours ago, CHA-LEE said:

All of the raw scoring data exists on Practiscore for everyone to examine and research. Look at the scoring data of the top 3 - 5 in each division for Area and National level matches. That raw data tells you EXACTLY what is needed from an "Acceptable Captured Points", "Hit Factor biased points captured" and "Acceptable Penalties" wise to WIN MAJOR MATCHES.

 

Do your own research to formulate an informed answer for yourself.

 

The 2021 Infinity Race Gun Nationals in Limited division is one of the most illustrative matches.

 

Not sure what drove Nils to shoot Minor. He was about 10 seconds faster overall, but even being a bit more accurate (305A, 83C, 7D 1M vs 298A, 88C, 8D 2M 1NS) he lost about 5% points comparing to Mason's Major results. That one M (or about 5 Ds) cost Nils the 1st place. 

BTW, keeping Nils times and recalculating his results in Major gives him almost a 5% lead to Mason...

image.thumb.png.6a69797fcf7bf36711a51f0a2cd01b3e.png

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, euxx said:

Not sure what drove Nils to shoot Minor. He was about 10 seconds faster overall, but even being a bit more accurate (305A, 83C, 7D 1M vs 298A, 88C, 8D 2M 1NS) he lost about 5% points comparing to Mason's Major results. That one M (or about 5 Ds) cost Nils the 1st place. 

 

I shoot drills every week and lately I've been shooting a 9mm 2011 because I have a bunch of ammo loaded.  My times are nearly identical to the same drills shooting 40 major.  So, there's really little to no competitive advantage.  And I'd think that's even more true for the top shooters.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

33 minutes ago, euxx said:

 

Not sure what drove Nils to shoot Minor.

 

My understanding is that Nils' sponsor does not make a gun suitable for limited major, so he just shot the same platform with which he has been having success (and paying his bills) in production and CO.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

46 minutes ago, ltdmstr said:

 

I shoot drills every week and lately I've been shooting a 9mm 2011 because I have a bunch of ammo loaded.  My times are nearly identical to the same drills shooting 40 major.  So, there's really little to no competitive advantage.  And I'd think that's even more true for the top shooters.

it depends on what targets/drills you are shooting. Predictive shooting is the same but when you have to shoot reactively (Tight partials, long distance targets and such), minor gun returns faster with everything else equal. No doubt about that. I tested this expensively shooting major and minor ammo through the same Limited gun. I played with various recoil springs as well... Nationals is the tight match.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, cheby said:

it depends on what targets/drills you are shooting. Predictive shooting is the same but when you have to shoot reactively (Tight partials, long distance targets and such), minor gun returns faster with everything else equal. No doubt about that. I tested this expensively shooting major and minor ammo through the same Limited gun. I played with various recoil springs as well... Nationals is the tight match.  

 

Agreed.  I'm shooting indoors now, and 15 yards max.  With longer distance and tight shots, there's a slight advantage.  But, again, probably less so for the top shooters.  And, probably only on a handful of stages.  I've shot local matches with minor pf, and my placement is always about the same as major. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, cheby said:

it depends on what targets/drills you are shooting. Predictive shooting is the same but when you have to shoot reactively (Tight partials, long distance targets and such), minor gun returns faster with everything else equal. No doubt about that. I tested this expensively shooting major and minor ammo through the same Limited gun. I played with various recoil springs as well... Nationals is the tight match.  

I'm not convinced there's much of a difference for me. I can measure a difference on something like can you count, or roscoe rattle (5-6 shots in a row), but I haven't been able to measure a difference in *time* on any drills that are only 2 shots per target. I have been able to measure a difference in scores, and major has always been higher scoring for me.

Edited by motosapiens
Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 minutes ago, motosapiens said:

I'm not convinced there's much of a difference for me. I can measure a difference on something like can you count, or roscoe rattle (5-6 shots in a row), but I haven't been able to measure a difference in any drills that are only 2 shots per target.

Can you count is no difference to me in terms of time. But a zebra at 15+yrds, headshots, and so on is definitely slower shooting major. Just to illustrate it further: Imagine shooting Bill Drills (Or two shots) at the heads with 22LR at 10yrds. The spits would be way faster compared to, say, 40SW. That is why Open guns are faster - compensators work. 

Edited by cheby
Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, cheby said:

Can you count is no difference to me in terms of time. But a zebra at 15+yrds, headshots, and so on is definitely slower shooting major. Just to illustrate it further: Imagine shooting Bill Drills at the heads with 22LR at 10yrds. The spits would be way faster compared to, say, 40SW. That is why Open guns are faster - compensators work. 

sure, a 22lr would be faster. But I shoot bill drills at heads at 15 yard (or at 3" circles at 10 yards) in literally every live fire practice, and have done so for years, and I haven't been able to measure a significant difference based on major/minor, 9/40/45, etc....  Maybe there's a hundredth or 3 difference here or there, but that just vanishes into the noise in the big picture. Splits are just really that big a factor in USPSA unless they are *egregiously* slow for some reason.

 

And the better news is I don't *need* to shoot as accurately on most partials with major, so I can aim a smidgen higher and just rip the trigger and take a few charlies without it hurting my feelings. :)

 

 

Edited by motosapiens
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Racinready300ex said:

 

Here we go, 30 pages of minor can be competitive with major. The sprinkle in some 40 is dead and we need a new division for Limited guns shooting minor. 

you mean Production 15? We sure do

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Racinready300ex said:

 

Here we go, 30 pages of minor can be competitive with major. The sprinkle in some 40 is dead and we need a new division for Limited guns shooting minor. 

work is slow, so I can argue about stupid stuff, or go dryfire...... lol..... and the garage is cold.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I can shoot faster with Minor, but still can't get points faster when targets get long and partial.  I spent a couple years shooting Single Stack which is the closest to break-even Major/Minor and even won a (lightly attended) Area match in SS.  Major beats Minor the vast majority of the time.

 

Nationals in Utah, head-to-head-- Major Open vs Minor PCC,  Open Major wins the combined.  Next Nats, CO vs Limited.  Limited Major wins the combined.

 

And as for speed vs accuracy.. The latest super-hoser USPSA classifier has a HHF of about 15 in CO (yeep!)  Throwing a miss at that HF is still going to cost a second versus hitting an alpha, but points are only about 0.07 sec ea.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now



×
×
  • Create New...