outerlimits Posted October 22, 2021 Share Posted October 22, 2021 3 hours ago, twodownzero said: It is utterly irresponsible for USPSA to have scheduled the nationals in a state with a magazine capacity limit. ^^This. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zincwarrior Posted October 22, 2021 Share Posted October 22, 2021 37 minutes ago, ChuckS said: Just a reminder, if you have an opinion about the match locations, pass on that opinion to your area director. That will likely have more effect than posting in this thread An excellent point. Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IHAVEGAS Posted October 22, 2021 Share Posted October 22, 2021 3 hours ago, twodownzero said: How serious a crime must one commit before it's unacceptable to flout the law? I'm not sure there are any limits anymore as long as you have the political connections. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosapiens Posted October 22, 2021 Share Posted October 22, 2021 everyone commits a crime everyday, even B-class lawyers. That's simply the nature of our excessive law-writing ability. I tend to be worried only about the laws I might get in trouble for. This doesn't seem to be one of those. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Umbrarian Posted October 22, 2021 Share Posted October 22, 2021 Is breaking the law to get a competitive advantage unsportmanlike? Does law breaking bring the sport into disrepute? 10.6 Match Disqualification – Unsportsmanlike Conduct 10.6.1 Competitors will be disqualified from a match for conduct which a Range Officer deems to be unsportsmanlike. Examples of unsportsmanlike conduct include, but are not limited to, cheating, dishonesty, failing to comply with the reasonable directions of a Match Official, or any behavior likely to bring the sport into disrepute. The Range Master must be notified as soon as possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosapiens Posted October 22, 2021 Share Posted October 22, 2021 lol. not if I'm on the arb committee, but I urge you arb it anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bagellord Posted October 22, 2021 Share Posted October 22, 2021 If you are so concerned about it, just don't shoot it. Then it won't be your problem. It's been made clear in this thread by people in the shooting scene that it is a non-issue, and if you are still wringing your hands, then this is not the event for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ltdmstr Posted October 22, 2021 Share Posted October 22, 2021 1 hour ago, motosapiens said: everyone commits a crime everyday, even B-class lawyers. That's simply the nature of our excessive law-writing ability. I tend to be worried only about the laws I might get in trouble for. This doesn't seem to be one of those. 7 minutes ago, Bagellord said: If you are so concerned about it, just don't shoot it. Then it won't be your problem. It's been made clear in this thread by people in the shooting scene that it is a non-issue, and if you are still wringing your hands, then this is not the event for you. Looking forward to the statement from USPSA saying that it's ok to bring your LCMs to Colorado for the match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Umbrarian Posted October 22, 2021 Share Posted October 22, 2021 11 minutes ago, ltdmstr said: Looking forward to the statement from USPSA saying that it's ok to bring your LCMs to Colorado for the match. No they do not have to do that. But they opened up this can of worms, so the least they could do is clarify what the rules are for this match wrt to magazines, so everybody can make an informed decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosapiens Posted October 22, 2021 Share Posted October 22, 2021 17 minutes ago, Umbrarian said: No they do not have to do that. But they opened up this can of worms, so the least they could do is clarify what the rules are for this match wrt to magazines, so everybody can make an informed decision. what's to clarify? It's the same as every other major match in colorado has been for years. Run wut ya brung. For the overwhelming majority of USPSA shooters, this is not a can of worms at all. I squadded with 10+ out of state folks at the bighorn there in june. The match was full, and the number of people who were concerned about this issue was zero. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Umbrarian Posted October 22, 2021 Share Posted October 22, 2021 Clarify that. it will not be dumbed down to 15 and you bring what you got. Never did a match in CO. Since ban. But have done in other ban states and things were dumbed down. thx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ltdmstr Posted October 22, 2021 Share Posted October 22, 2021 38 minutes ago, motosapiens said: For the overwhelming majority of USPSA shooters, this is not a can of worms at all. I squadded with 10+ out of state folks at the bighorn there in june. The match was full, and the number of people who were concerned about this issue was zero. Well, if anyone does get caught, that's their defense right there. I'm sure the judge will love it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosapiens Posted October 23, 2021 Share Posted October 23, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, ltdmstr said: Well, if anyone does get caught, that's their defense right there. I'm sure the judge will love it. if anyone gets caught it will be because they were selling drugs or committed a violent crime. just like the other 11 people that got caught. but if you are concerned, stay home. the entire shooting community gave the collective finger to all the scamdemic bs for the last 18 months too, and no one went to jail. Edited October 23, 2021 by motosapiens Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSteel Posted October 23, 2021 Share Posted October 23, 2021 There is absolutely no way this potential issue was not discussed by the USPSA Nationals scheduling committee / President et all before making the decision. The fact that there has been no official announcement restricting the match based on the States statutes indicates they are shielding themselves from any possible liability / litigation from this activity. No skin in it for me as I’m not a participant but as a paying member of USPSA my expectations of the organization setting a positive / clear example is a requirement. Obviously there is considerable sponsor $$ involved as well as $$ to be made in the local areas for food/lodging/travel etc. so I doubt anyone is going to say “stay away”… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twodownzero Posted October 25, 2021 Share Posted October 25, 2021 On 10/22/2021 at 3:54 PM, Bagellord said: If you are so concerned about it, just don't shoot it. Then it won't be your problem. It's been made clear in this thread by people in the shooting scene that it is a non-issue, and if you are still wringing your hands, then this is not the event for you. It is all of our problem as USPSA members. The USPSA Nationals should be a world-class shooting event. Telling USPSA members to either not shoot the nationals or violate the law (or figure out some kind of way to comply) is not a solution. The solution is to move the event out of Colorado and stop having USPSA major matches there unless the law changes. As much as I loved my home state of Illinois, it's not a coincidence why the USPSA nationals aren't held in Cook County. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zincwarrior Posted October 25, 2021 Share Posted October 25, 2021 On 10/22/2021 at 1:39 PM, Zincwarrior said: An excellent point. Thank you. I received this from the USPSA. It feels helpful. I am happily surprised that they replied within 24 hours. Very impressive. While I am not nationals material I would feel more comfortable based on this. Additionally the idea of mailing magazines in and out appears helpful if concerning. Quote It may seem odd, but the range we are using is a government operated public range and is welcoming us. If you would like to discuss further, please give me a call at XXX Thanks for contacting us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RileyBowman Posted October 25, 2021 Share Posted October 25, 2021 9 hours ago, Zincwarrior said: I received this from the USPSA. It feels helpful. I am happily surprised that they replied within 24 hours. Very impressive. While I am not nationals material I would feel more comfortable based on this. Additionally the idea of mailing magazines in and out appears helpful if concerning. Quote It may seem odd, but the range we are using is a government operated public range and is welcoming us. If you would like to discuss further, please give me a call at XXX Thanks for contacting us. Funny...I seem to recall mentioning this..... A state-owned, managed, and operated facility... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ltdmstr Posted October 25, 2021 Share Posted October 25, 2021 57 minutes ago, RileyBowman said: Funny...I seem to recall mentioning this..... A state-owned, managed, and operated facility... Yeah, except for the phone call part. And that's because USPSA will never put in writing that it's ok to show up with your LCMs in violation of state law. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brooke Posted October 27, 2021 Share Posted October 27, 2021 On 10/25/2021 at 6:38 PM, ltdmstr said: Yeah, except for the phone call part. And that's because USPSA will never put in writing that it's ok to show up with your LCMs in violation of state law. yep! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dutchman195 Posted November 3, 2021 Share Posted November 3, 2021 On 10/20/2021 at 6:03 AM, rowdyb said: That's your opinion. If I were king they would either all be together or all entirely stand alone. All together is the only way. Run it like the huge matches in Europe (euro open?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BritinUSA Posted November 3, 2021 Share Posted November 3, 2021 I think a single handgun Nationals would be great. PCC would need its own match as I don't think its possible to test the accuracy potential of a carbine without exceeding the accuracy potential of most handguns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boomstick303 Posted November 3, 2021 Share Posted November 3, 2021 2 minutes ago, BritinUSA said: PCC would need its own match as I don't think its possible to test the accuracy potential of a carbine without exceeding the accuracy potential of most handguns. Completely agree. I am curious if the numbers for PCC participation have dropped off where USPSA feels that it cannot fill a PCC only Nationals? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Racinready300ex Posted November 3, 2021 Share Posted November 3, 2021 I feel like making PCC it's own match would of been better for PCC and the handgun divisions. My guess the decision wasn't based on thinking PCC shooters couldn't fill the match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vluc Posted November 3, 2021 Share Posted November 3, 2021 We had a PCC only match set up and planned for in Western PA a few years ago, several hundred shooters registered. Unfortunately the match fell through, but it showed us the interest was there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Racinready300ex Posted November 3, 2021 Share Posted November 3, 2021 42 minutes ago, vluc said: We had a PCC only match set up and planned for in Western PA a few years ago, several hundred shooters registered. Unfortunately the match fell through, but it showed us the interest was there. What made it fall through? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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