Limited 40sw

[Hvansky]

Hello!

 

I’m currently looking at getting a double stacked 1911 in 40 for limited division this next shooting season. I’m currently looking at used STI Edges because it hits my budget of under $2000. Before I pull the trigger on that, what other 2011 style pistols are selling for that price point? It freaks me out a little bit knowing that sti, now staccato, won’t do anything with those firearms and if any work is needed, it’ll all be third party.

 

I know this has been a post on these forums before, but I’m trying to get a sense of what’s available currently in 2021. I also know that the TSO fits this price point, but really in love with the 1911 platform. 
 

Thanks!

[twodownzero]

You should certainly be able to get a Limited gun for $2000 and an Edge should do a fine job for you.  If you wait until December or January, you might even be able to get one for $1500 or so.  I have had my STI Eagle for 12-13 years and it's still going strong with new mag springs and followers this year.  It's sad that STI is gone, but their guns were the best value at their price point and you won't be disappointed.  Don't feel like you're giving anything up by running an Edge instead of something else.  I'm willing to bet with the right springs and a few tweaks to the sear spring, you likely couldn't tell an Edge from a custom gun anyway.

[Hvansky]

23 minutes ago, twodownzero said:

You should certainly be able to get a Limited gun for $2000 and an Edge should do a fine job for you.  If you wait until December or January, you might even be able to get one for $1500 or so.  I have had my STI Eagle for 12-13 years and it's still going strong with new mag springs and followers this year.  It's sad that STI is gone, but their guns were the best value at their price point and you won't be disappointed.  Don't feel like you're giving anything up by running an Edge instead of something else.  I'm willing to bet with the right springs and a few tweaks to the sear spring, you likely couldn't tell an Edge from a custom gun anyway.

That’s smart, waiting till after the season ends to look for one. And thank your for that information. I’d have to say that’s pretty much where I’m leaning as of right now. Just want to see what other options there are at the moment

[davsco]

51 minutes ago, Hvansky said:

It freaks me out a little bit knowing that sti, now staccato, won’t do anything with those firearms and if any work is needed, it’ll all be third party.

 

not sure where you got that idea or info, they sent me a return label recently to check out my dvc open gun from way before staccato was a thing.

[Hvansky]

Just now, davsco said:

not sure where you got that idea or info, they sent me a return label recently to check out my dvc open gun from way before staccato was a thing.

I could have swore that I read that being one of the downsides to buying used STIs nowadays. I’ll look into it again, thank you for the heads up 

[twodownzero]

1 hour ago, davsco said:

not sure where you got that idea or info, they sent me a return label recently to check out my dvc open gun from way before staccato was a thing.

I don't believe anyone who was there when it was employee-owned is even left, not anyone I knew anyway.  It might have been imperfect as STI, but the current company is unrecognizable compared to what STI once was.

[Postal Bob]

I think the STI Edges are a great value. I picked one up new a few years ago from Dawson Precision, as one of their competition guns they made. They started with a base STI, chrome plated it, then put in better ignition components, magwell, etc. As is they are great shooting guns. I then tore it all apart, tweaked and polished all moving parts, put on a new grip, and shaped it to fit my hand. It's now one of my best shooting guns.

So look for a used STI Edge that Dawson customized. Great value for the money.

[Hvansky]

22 minutes ago, Postal Bob said:

I think the STI Edges are a great value. I picked one up new a few years ago from Dawson Precision, as one of their competition guns they made. They started with a base STI, chrome plated it, then put in better ignition components, magwell, etc. As is they are great shooting guns. I then tore it all apart, tweaked and polished all moving parts, put on a new grip, and shaped it to fit my hand. It's now one of my best shooting guns.

So look for a used STI Edge that Dawson customized. Great value for the money.

Thank you for your review! I’ll have to keep an eye out, the hardest part will be finding one that someone is selling 

[zzt]

22 minutes ago, Hvansky said:

Thank you for your review! I’ll have to keep an eye out, the hardest part will be finding one that someone is selling 

 

That may well be the case this year.  With the primer and ammo shortage people are shooting what they already have loaded.  I shoot with three Open or CO shooters who switched to shooting Limited, because they had ammo for it.

 

I am a lover of the 1911/2011 platform.  In fact I built four of them.  Plus, I bought others that I still have before I decided to build my own.  So I understand when you say you prefer the 1911 platform.  IMO you are wrong when it comes to Limited.  The best Limited gun I've ever shot is my highly modified CZ 75 TS.  It runs 100%, shoots flatter and softer than a 2011.  The bore is lower relative to the grip so recoil is more straight back and muzzle rise is reduced.  Also, you don't have to mess with mags or feed lips.  Mags with CZC extended base plates hold 20 reloadable, or 21 reloadable if you use CZC springs and followers.  I love that gun.  If I could still see front sights I'd still be shooting it.

 

I'd suggest you go to the range and see if anyone is shooting a TS.  Ask them to hold it and shoot a little.  I had an Edge in 40 and it felt heavy and clunky compared to the TS.  YMMV.  BTW, the TSO is a joke IMO.  You pay for stuff you have to throw away to get 20 in a mag and you don't really get anything the TS didn't give you except for a thumb rest.

[Hvansky]

34 minutes ago, zzt said:

 

That may well be the case this year.  With the primer and ammo shortage people are shooting what they already have loaded.  I shoot with three Open or CO shooters who switched to shooting Limited, because they had ammo for it.

 

I am a lover of the 1911/2011 platform.  In fact I built four of them.  Plus, I bought others that I still have before I decided to build my own.  So I understand when you say you prefer the 1911 platform.  IMO you are wrong when it comes to Limited.  The best Limited gun I've ever shot is my highly modified CZ 75 TS.  It runs 100%, shoots flatter and softer than a 2011.  The bore is lower relative to the grip so recoil is more straight back and muzzle rise is reduced.  Also, you don't have to mess with mags or feed lips.  Mags with CZC extended base plates hold 20 reloadable, or 21 reloadable if you use CZC springs and followers.  I love that gun.  If I could still see front sights I'd still be shooting it.

 

I'd suggest you go to the range and see if anyone is shooting a TS.  Ask them to hold it and shoot a little.  I had an Edge in 40 and it felt heavy and clunky compared to the TS.  YMMV.  BTW, the TSO is a joke IMO.  You pay for stuff you have to throw away to get 20 in a mag and you don't really get anything the TS didn't give you except for a thumb rest.

I’ve only shot the tso, not the the ts. I’ll have to see if someone around has one that I can shoot. It’s going to be hard to change my mind about a 2011/1911 but definitely need to look into the ts. Thank you 

[zzt]

2 hours ago, Hvansky said:

I’ve only shot the tso, not the the ts. I’ll have to see if someone around has one that I can shoot. It’s going to be hard to change my mind about a 2011/1911 but definitely need to look into the ts. Thank you 

 

The nice thing about a tricked out TS is you can get back most of what you spent on it when you sell.  I did a grip reduction on mine.  I deepened the beavertail, undercut the trigger guard and removed the coarse checkering front and back.  Strips of grip tape are far superior.  Then I had the frame Cerakoted in black.  I also had Cajun Gun works do a race job on it.  All the internals were replaced with high performance parts.  Then I had the slide lightened and put new Lok grips on it.  Added a Dawson FO front sight and the CGW 10X front bushing.  I reprofiled the fixed rear to match the Dawson and rounded the ears so I could use it as a slide racker.  It runs like a top and is smoother and slicker than any of my buddies TSOs.

 

All told I have somewhere between $2300 and $2400 into the gun and mags.  I was recently offered $2200 for it, but didn't sell.  That doesn't make sense, because it just sits there.  Some day someone will talk me out of it.

Edited October 15, 2021 by zzt

[Hvansky]

1 hour ago, zzt said:

 

The nice thing about a tricked out TS is you can get back most of what you spent on it when you sell.  I did a grip reduction on mine.  I deepened the beavertail, undercut the trigger guard and removed the coarse checkering front and back.  Strips of grip tape are far superior.  Then I had the frame Cerakoted in black.  I also had Cajun Gun works do a race job on it.  All the internals were replaced with high performance parts.  Then I had the slide lightened and put new Lok grips on it.  Added a Dawson FO front sight and the CGW 10X front bushing.  I reprofiled the fixed rear to match the Dawson and rounded the ears so I could use it as a slide racker.  It runs like a top and is smoother and slicker than any of my buddies TSOs.

 

All told I have somewhere between $2300 and $2400 into the gun and mags.  I was recently offered $2200 for it, but didn't sell.  That doesn't make sense, because it just sits there.  Some day someone will talk me out of it.

Jeez, I imagine that thing probably runs better than 85% of the limited guns out here. And I get that feeling. It’s like you hate seeing a great comp gun turn into a safe queen but would hate even more seeing it go to another person. 
 

i feel like if I were to shoot something like that, I would probably never go back to a 1911/2011 platform haha

[obsessiveshooter]

I thought I wanted a 2011 when I first started USPSA.  Back then an STI Edge was the hot ticket.  Fortunately for me, the local GM shot a Tanfo in Limited, so I was able to see early on that it really is the shooter.   To me the 2011 felt weird handling it, and the TS just felt perfect in my XL hands.  I bought one new on sale for $900, and haven't done anything to it but springs, magwell and front sight.  It's not flashy, but it runs flawless and nothing has broken on it, going on like 5 or 6 years. The trigger has been fantastic since new.   You need to handle the options out there and make a decision based on what feels right to you.  

[Brooke]

Don't buy a fixer upper. Get what you want NEW. Don't get a gun that is not even supported by its builder. Just a suggestion, the Atlas Titan is around $4000 and Atlas supports their customers completely.

 

Don't misunderstand I get nothing for suggesting anything at all. But a $2000 fixer will cost you $4000 before you are done.

[zzt]

1 hour ago, Brooke said:

But a $2000 fixer will cost you $4000 before you are done.

 

Nonsense.  I've bought several guns for under $2k and had to do nothing but change out all the springs.  In fact, I recommend buying good used first before buying new.  That way you know what you want, etc.  I bought two different Open gun and shot several others.  After two years I knew exactly what I wanted and built it.  I sold both guns for what I paid for them.

[IHAVEGAS]

12 hours ago, obsessiveshooter said:

I thought I wanted a 2011 when I first started USPSA.  Back then an STI Edge was the hot ticket.  Fortunately for me, the local GM shot a Tanfo in Limited, so I was able to see early on that it really is the shooter. 

I really like Tanfo's when they are right, but I have purchased 2 that do not shoot worth a darn and they are notorious (ask Patriot Defense or any outfit that makes parts for them) for lack of quality control. When that happens do not expect much from IFG.

Where I have gotten is to look for a used one that works well from a trusted seller. 

Edited October 16, 2021 by IHAVEGAS

[muncie21]

OP- If you haven't done so already, I'd suggest shooting both the 2011 and CZ platform guns to see if you have a preference with the ergos. 

 

CZ design pistols (TS, TSO, Tanfo, etc.) use a hinge trigger, which feels very different than the triggers in 1911/2011 pistols.  Aside from trigger feel/design, design features like bore axis (CZs tend to have lower BA) and grip angle are important to many folks. 

 

I have both platforms and competed with both in USPSA limited division.  As a B-class shooter, neither offers a significant advantage over another.  The major difference for me (as a reloader) is that CZs require shorter OAL cartridges (when using the same bullet/ogive) than my 2011s guns.  

[Hvansky]

4 hours ago, Brooke said:

Don't buy a fixer upper. Get what you want NEW. Don't get a gun that is not even supported by its builder. Just a suggestion, the Atlas Titan is around $4000 and Atlas supports their customers completely.

 

Don't misunderstand I get nothing for suggesting anything at all. But a $2000 fixer will cost you $4000 before you are done.

Buy once cry once mentality? I can see this. The atlas titan is the first pistol to actually draw my attention into the 2011 platform. 
Everything about that pistol just looks amazing and checks off a lot of boxes

[Hvansky]

46 minutes ago, muncie21 said:

OP- If you haven't done so already, I'd suggest shooting both the 2011 and CZ platform guns to see if you have a preference with the ergos. 

 

CZ design pistols (TS, TSO, Tanfo, etc.) use a hinge trigger, which feels very different than the triggers in 1911/2011 pistols.  Aside from trigger feel/design, design features like bore axis (CZs tend to have lower BA) and grip angle are important to many folks. 

 

I have both platforms and competed with both in USPSA limited division.  As a B-class shooter, neither offers a significant advantage over another.  The major difference for me (as a reloader) is that CZs require shorter OAL cartridges (when using the same bullet/ogive) than my 2011s guns.  

What is your OAL for your 2011s usually? My CZ are at 1.095 to 1.10

[muncie21]

6 minutes ago, Hvansky said:

What is your OAL for your 2011s usually? My CZ are at 1.095 to 1.10

I load 1.15-1.16 using 180g bullets in my 2011s.  I can go a bit longer but don't see the need.  And yes, your numbers are in line with what I load for TSO in .40.

[johnmyster]

May or may not be a very nice DVC Limited 40 listed with 5 mags over on 1911 addicts for $2.5k by a dealer/member.

 

in June 2020, STI/Staccatto took my newly acquired 2004 Trojan 9mm back to fix a feeding issue.  According to them, the ramp angle on many of their earlier guns/barrels was not optimal (and on this gun, had been for 16 years.)  Gunsmith Ricky fit a new barrel and gave it a new extractor.  They paid shipping both ways and included a dawson tool less guiderod and a brand new Tripp mag.  Guide rod was because the gunsmith got annoyed by the FLGR they originally equipped the gun with.  The mag was to entice me to switch to Tripp mags.  (Gunsmith opinion was that it would feed better than with WC ETMs.)  It was just over a year ago, but seems like they are far from unsupportive of their historical product.

 

 

Edited October 16, 2021 by johnmyster

[Skeeter44]

2 hours ago, johnmyster said:

May or may not be a very nice DVC Limited 40 listed with 5 mags over on 1911 addicts for $2.5k by a dealer/member.

 

in June 2020, STI/Staccatto took my newly acquired 2004 Trojan 9mm back to fix a feeding issue.  According to them, the ramp angle on many of their earlier guns/barrels was not optimal (and on this gun, had been for 16 years.)  Gunsmith Ricky fit a new barrel and gave it a new extractor.  They paid shipping both ways and included a dawson tool less guiderod and a brand new Tripp mag.  Guide rod was because the gunsmith got annoyed by the FLGR they originally equipped the gun with.  The mag was to entice me to switch to Tripp mags.  (Gunsmith opinion was that it would feed better than with WC ETMs.)  It was just over a year ago, but seems like they are far from unsupportive of their historical product.

 

 

Im in the same boat as the OP, I thought I had one nailed down but.... Im gonna see if I can find that one on 1911addicts

 

[obsessiveshooter]

At today's match on my squad, I saw 2 $6k+ open pistols go down and a 1911 that that wouldn't run. I've seen countless issues with the Limited 2011s that ruin matches for my squadmates over the years, even with guys who are super knowledgeable and do proactive maintenance.  It absolutely amazes me that people usually dive into a 2011 without checking out a TS/TSO first.  The CZs just run and run and run and run.  The peace of mind is priceless.  It doesn't even cross my mind that my pistol might malfunction.   

[Dan4147]

On 10/15/2021 at 11:02 AM, Hvansky said:

Hello!

 

I’m currently looking at getting a double stacked 1911 in 40 for limited division this next shooting season. I’m currently looking at used STI Edges because it hits my budget of under $2000. Before I pull the trigger on that, what other 2011 style pistols are selling for that price point? It freaks me out a little bit knowing that sti, now staccato, won’t do anything with those firearms and if any work is needed, it’ll all be third party.

 

I know this has been a post on these forums before, but I’m trying to get a sense of what’s available currently in 2021. I also know that the TSO fits this price point, but really in love with the 1911 platform. 
 

Thanks!

 

I will give you another option response directly to you post.  If you happen across one, the Para Pro Custom 40 fits your bill.  I got 2 several years ago.  Then they were about 1.100.  The platform is there.  Then springs, polishing, extended mag release, and MBX mags are all you need.

[IHAVEGAS]

12 hours ago, obsessiveshooter said:

It absolutely amazes me that people usually dive into a 2011 without checking out a TS/TSO first.  The CZs just run and run and run and run.  The peace of mind is priceless.  It doesn't even cross my mind that my pistol might malfunction.   

 

Agreed, but the Glock and XDM crowd might see the CZ as overkill if all you want to do is win matches.