Phoenix Redback question

[Fasthenk65]

Shot a Phoenix Redback in Poland, absolutely loved it.

 

Shot one today and found a lot of pre-travel... (really lot's) question: can pretravel be adjusted on the Redback??

 

Further DA bit hard but will improve as I found in Poland with standard gun. SA amazing. Love this gun, wonder about the pre-travel issue,,, hope someone can help TNX!

[Fasthenk65]

And a holster from RHT would also be nice see other topic

 

Edited October 10, 2021 by Fasthenk65

[gundoc123]

I've been searching for these answers to this and other questions.  I'm in the US.  I see USPSA has added phoenix to approved production list finally.

 

I have small hands and have been shooting the CZ S2 for a couple years.  I wouldn't be able to if it weren't for the CGW RRK parts.  I really wanted to upgrade to the Phoenix Redback for my competition gun.  I've finally got everything tuned up the best I can for the transition.

Holster was the easy part,  I have a local guy that made me one out of double layer kydex and I took the hardware from a GX Products Vice holster.  It's good to go:

 

 

 

The tinkering/tuning with a $4K gun:

 

I used a straight double action cz shadow 2 trigger (from CZC that was milled to reduce thickness and add texture to the face) with a pre-travel and over-travel set screw.  I painfully removed the trigger pin from the Redback and used a CGW floating trigger pin with a reduced power trigger return spring.  The pin hasn't walked despite it being undersized to the factory trigger pin.  It is retained well by the spring and CZ flat trigger.  Dramatically improved the DA pull weight.  You may notice the reach is substantially reduced as well.  Despite the flat trigger (more dramatic reduction if using the pre-B trigger), the reach is at least 5mm less.  This was accomplished by using the CGW RRK Disconnector for the Shadow 2.  I had to remove about 5 thousandths on the left side of the disco so it would fit in the hammer/strut/disco assembly and articulate with the trigger bar appropriately.  This substantially reduced the pre-travel slop in SA as well.  Although I'm right handed, I reversed the mag catch, because extended mag release buttons are not available yet here in the US.  I'm patiently awaiting from the importer (The Attic).  I've been doing some reloads using my trigger finger to depress mag catch.  Steep learning curve so far. 

 

 

My support hand position is high and the safety was impairing my grip style.  So I just ground down thumb ledge on the left side safety.  The slide stop/thumb rest is from Eamann Tech, made for the CZ75/SP01 (slightly longer than the version made for the Shadow 2).  This works in the CZC A01-LD also.  I cut off the inside lug that engages slide lock to disable the slide lock function.  

 

Lastly, I wasn't happy with the DA pull weight.  So I used an 11.5lb CGW Hammer spring and cut coils to match the length of the factory main spring.  To ensure reliable ignition, I cut a few coils off the firing pin spring as well.  So far no light strikes.  My DA pull weight is about 6.5# now.  Still perceive some stacking but acceptable for me.  The SA is superb especially since the pre-travel is drastically reduced.  I kept all the factory parts including the firing pin spring intact.  I purchased a spare set of springs from IPSC Store for the Redback they recently began selling this item.  

 

Hope this helps.  I just signed up for this forum.  I've been a stalker for years.  But felt compelled this evening to respond to your post.

 

 

[Blackstone45]

14 hours ago, gundoc123 said:

I've been searching for these answers to this and other questions.  I'm in the US.  I see USPSA has added phoenix to approved production list finally.

 

I have small hands and have been shooting the CZ S2 for a couple years.  I wouldn't be able to if it weren't for the CGW RRK parts.  I really wanted to upgrade to the Phoenix Redback for my competition gun.  I've finally got everything tuned up the best I can for the transition.

Holster was the easy part,  I have a local guy that made me one out of double layer kydex and I took the hardware from a GX Products Vice holster.  It's good to go:

 

 

 

The tinkering/tuning with a $4K gun:

 

I used a straight double action cz shadow 2 trigger (from CZC that was milled to reduce thickness and add texture to the face) with a pre-travel and over-travel set screw.  I painfully removed the trigger pin from the Redback and used a CGW floating trigger pin with a reduced power trigger return spring.  The pin hasn't walked despite it being undersized to the factory trigger pin.  It is retained well by the spring and CZ flat trigger.  Dramatically improved the DA pull weight.  You may notice the reach is substantially reduced as well.  Despite the flat trigger (more dramatic reduction if using the pre-B trigger), the reach is at least 5mm less.  This was accomplished by using the CGW RRK Disconnector for the Shadow 2.  I had to remove about 5 thousandths on the left side of the disco so it would fit in the hammer/strut/disco assembly and articulate with the trigger bar appropriately.  This substantially reduced the pre-travel slop in SA as well.  Although I'm right handed, I reversed the mag catch, because extended mag release buttons are not available yet here in the US.  I'm patiently awaiting from the importer (The Attic).  I've been doing some reloads using my trigger finger to depress mag catch.  Steep learning curve so far. 

 

 

My support hand position is high and the safety was impairing my grip style.  So I just ground down thumb ledge on the left side safety.  The slide stop/thumb rest is from Eamann Tech, made for the CZ75/SP01 (slightly longer than the version made for the Shadow 2).  This works in the CZC A01-LD also.  I cut off the inside lug that engages slide lock to disable the slide lock function.  

 

Lastly, I wasn't happy with the DA pull weight.  So I used an 11.5lb CGW Hammer spring and cut coils to match the length of the factory main spring.  To ensure reliable ignition, I cut a few coils off the firing pin spring as well.  So far no light strikes.  My DA pull weight is about 6.5# now.  Still perceive some stacking but acceptable for me.  The SA is superb especially since the pre-travel is drastically reduced.  I kept all the factory parts including the firing pin spring intact.  I purchased a spare set of springs from IPSC Store for the Redback they recently began selling this item.  

 

Hope this helps.  I just signed up for this forum.  I've been a stalker for years.  But felt compelled this evening to respond to your post.

 

 

Thanks for the info. I'm waiting for some Eemanntech parts to arrive.

 

Was the trigger pin very difficult to remove, similar to a factory Shadow trigger pin? And did the CZ trigger need any fitting/modifications in order to fit the Redback?

 

I agree with the issue with the large left hand safety. I'm finding that my support hand sometimes bumps it up slightly during shooting.

Edited November 4, 2021 by Blackstone45

[gundoc123]

The trigger pin was extremely difficult to remove.  I used the CGW pin starter to get it started, then used 1/16th pin punch.

https://cajungunworks.com/product/sp-forged-steel-starter-punch/

 

 I broke/bent 2 1/16th punches before ultimately getting it out.  I've broken many on previous Shadow projects, so I keep about 5-6 handy.  The CZ shadow trigger pin holes are smaller than the redbacks.  The frame of the redback is also considerably wider than the shadow.  When using the CGW floating pin (shorter and thinner), it'll make you feel uneasy replacing the stock sizes.  However, it hasn't walked and complete disassembly now is a breeze.  Last thing the trigger bar/trigger assembly won't easily come out of the frame unless you remove he slide stop retaining spring and it's pin (easy with just a push of the punch, no mallet required).  

[Blackstone45]

Happy to report that the trigger pin was quite easy to remove on mine, I think because I asked them to change from a SAO trigger to a DA/SA so it had already been punched out once.

 

Installing the Eemanntech 8lb main spring and -15% CZ trigger return spring has made the trigger much nicer already (the factory SA was already great). The DA still feels quite gritty. I'm waiting for a few CZ parts to arrive such as the competition disconnector (hopefully it's compatible) and will polish some of the internals to try and remove that final grittiness.

[gundoc123]

Blackstone, 

 

Happy to hear!  When the disconnector arrives, it will likely be too thick to fit in the hammer strut assembly.  I removed material on the left side of the disconnector to ensure proper fitment to hammer and trigger bar.  What does the cz competition disconnector do to the reach for the DA pull?

[Blackstone45]

3 hours ago, gundoc123 said:

Blackstone, 

 

Happy to hear!  When the disconnector arrives, it will likely be too thick to fit in the hammer strut assembly.  I removed material on the left side of the disconnector to ensure proper fitment to hammer and trigger bar.  What does the cz competition disconnector do to the reach for the DA pull?

Unfortunately I don't know, the manufacturers don't say anything about the DA trigger reach, only the SA pre-travel: https://www.ipscstore.com/en/cz/8359-eemann-tech-competition-disconnector-for-cz-shadow.html

 

Noted about the disconnector being too thick. So just have to sand it down until it fits?

[gundoc123]

yes, i used a dremel sanding drum and proceeded slowly and checked periodically.  not too challenging.  Initially tried filing, but it was too slow of a process.

[Blackstone45]

On 11/10/2021 at 1:58 AM, gundoc123 said:

yes, i used a dremel sanding drum and proceeded slowly and checked periodically.  not too challenging.  Initially tried filing, but it was too slow of a process.

So I also ordered an aftermarket Shadow 2 trigger, and realised that the Phoenix factory trigger bar pin is too big for the Shadow 2 trigger. Did you experience this too? In any case, I've ordered some OEM CZ trigger bar pins.

[fluffybadbad]

On 11/24/2021 at 7:23 AM, Blackstone45 said:

So I also ordered an aftermarket Shadow 2 trigger, and realised that the Phoenix factory trigger bar pin is too big for the Shadow 2 trigger. Did you experience this too? In any case, I've ordered some OEM CZ trigger bar pins.

Did you ever get your aftermarket trigger to fit and function?

[Blackstone45]

On 1/21/2022 at 10:25 PM, fluffybadbad said:

Did you ever get your aftermarket trigger to fit and function?

I had to get a gunsmith to help me fit the Eemanntech CZ ultimate trigger. It just needed a bit removed as it wasn't resetting in double action mode.

[bigdave24]

Does anyone know if there is any smaller option for LH safety on the Redback?  I’d really prefer not to grind it.

[Blackstone45]

20 hours ago, bigdave24 said:

Does anyone know if there is any smaller option for LH safety on the Redback?  I’d really prefer not to grind it.

Yes the factory has a small/slim left hand safety lever (and conversely a large right hand safety lever). You will probably need to contact a local distributor to see if they can order it in.

[KommBat]

Some new guns of Phoenix. 
The Predator, an entry level gun and the Redback 2.0, here with a orange grip 

[KommBat]

That’s the Drake.

In 9mm and DA/SA Production approved (IPSC) 

[KommBat]

The new Raptor in 9x19 or 9x21

[KommBat]

The Kratos. A co-production with M-Arms. It’s a 9mm single stack. Still a prototype, but I guess it will be great when ready

[KommBat]

The Swiss and German Team Phoenix at IWA Show 2022

Edited March 8, 2022 by KommBat

[Fasthenk65]

On 3/8/2022 at 10:07 AM, KommBat said:

Some new guns of Phoenix. 
The Predator, an entry level gun and the Redback 2.0, here with a orange grip 

NICE

What's different from the original?

[Fasthenk65]

On 3/8/2022 at 10:10 AM, KommBat said:

That’s the Drake.

In 9mm and DA/SA Production approved (IPSC) 

So a standard gun made suitable for production... Where would it improve on the Redback??

[KommBat]

On 3/12/2022 at 12:50 AM, Fasthenk65 said:

NICE

What's different from the original?

The grip is of a Fusion, the Alu-frame of a Redback 1.0 and the slide is the new one of the Redback 2.0

It is well under 2000€ and perfectly suited for IPSC Production Optics Light. 

[KommBat]

On 3/12/2022 at 12:51 AM, Fasthenk65 said:

So a standard gun made suitable for production... Where would it improve on the Redback??

The barrel, slide and sight radius is extended by 0.5 inch and it has a ball bearing barrel bushing instead of a Trompete style bull barrel. Plus, within  a few minutes you can make it a 9mm standard division gun, or a soft shooting production optics pistol. 
It’s a large frame as the Raptor is and it will run on Tanfoglio large frame mags. 

[Fasthenk65]

On 3/13/2022 at 8:33 AM, KommBat said:

The grip is of a Fusion, the Alu-frame of a Redback 1.0 and the slide is the new one of the Redback 2.0

It is well under 2000€ and perfectly suited for IPSC Production Optics Light. 

TnX! And what is new on the Redback 2.0?? What could they possibly improve??

[Blackstone45]

Redback 2 is mostly that it comes optic ready I think.