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Why are SS classifier HFs lower than Production?


-JCN-

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Or just award GM to those that achieve 95% or more at Nationals, which remain in effect until the next Nationals for that division. Produce a ‘challenge-coin’ type thing for those that earn it.
 

This would make Master the highest grade that could be achieved with classifiers.

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8 hours ago, BritinUSA said:

Or just award GM to those that achieve 95% or more at Nationals, which remain in effect until the next Nationals for that division. Produce a ‘challenge-coin’ type thing for those that earn it.
 

This would make Master the highest grade that could be achieved with classifiers.


I think that would be fine. It’d be like IDPA. 

 

But keep in mind 95% at Nationals is very often limited to the podium or champion. So you could essentially say the same thing by saying you podiumed at Nats. 
 

But who hasn’t heard of the podium people at Nats anyway? Does that really achieve anything in addition?

 

Grand master isn’t the end all be all. Nobody thinks that. But it is a representation generally of a certain amount of skill. 

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BritinUSAs idea has been suggested before and is a great one. 

 

Another point that's been made is that everyone knows that Shooter "X" is better than Shooter "Y." "Y" has made GM through classifiers and "X" just hasn't connected on classifiers enough to get bumped. 

 

GM or M or D....everyone can readily establish who's better, regardless of classification. 

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On 10/8/2021 at 5:28 PM, -JCN- said:

 

Dunno man. Few minutes with a Dremel….

:D

 

 

 

25071616-00DE-41BE-ABF1-D04C6E07AE61.thumb.jpeg.f8cfa75b83267dd7847cf5fd80c71366.jpeg

 

That's defiantly more aggressive then what I did. Maybe if I get bored this winter I'll attack it. lol

 

Tanfo still might be bigger, their mags are different and I think you install the hammer spring from the top so there is alot more space to work with. 

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On 10/8/2021 at 10:31 PM, BritinUSA said:

Or just award GM to those that achieve 95% or more at Nationals, which remain in effect until the next Nationals for that division. Produce a ‘challenge-coin’ type thing for those that earn it.
 

This would make Master the highest grade that could be achieved with classifiers.

 

This would probably be fine, of course you just move a bunch of GMs down to M so the current M's can never win. Is that really different than having a bunch of GM's who can't win?  For a example last year Max won CO, number two was 94% so there would only be one GM in that division. Which is fine but it means there would be a lot of top level guys who are just M, making the gap from the top level M to the bottom level M much bigger than anything we have currently. 

 

Another example might be Steoger is the current IPSC world champion but he didn't shoot Nat's last year. So if he shoots his sectional this year he'd be M just like everyone else. What problem does this fix? The same guys will still win most section and area matches just now they'll be M's instead of G's, and the guy's who currently win M will probably not have a shot at anything. 

 

I guess we should define the goal, if the goal is we just don't want people who we don't think are good enough being able to call themselves a Grandmaster then the goal is accomplished with this idea. If the goal is to split people into classifications based on their skills and match performances then I don't see how cramming a wider range of skills into M is helping the situation any.

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@Racinready300ex

 

I agree with all you are saying. People find their own motivation in the sport in different ways at different levels.

 

@motosapiens

 

I don’t think any new GMs think that they’re going to win the world shoot. 
 

I’ll never compete with the Grauffels and Max Michels of the world. I am too old, have a day job and frankly just don’t care to make my recreational hobby into an all encompassing endeavor. 
 

But for a regular Joe, getting GM can be a point of pride. Just like winning a club championship in golf or whatever. I like it because there’s a National standard rather than winning local Lim 10 in a division with one other super senior and saying you’re the champ. 
 

It’s shorthand for “I don’t suck.” There are people who don’t suck and aren’t GM. But I like the automatic ability for others to kind of understand that you have to get to a certain level of skill to earn that moniker.

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Reading through this thread was fascinating, and added some depth to my thinking about the classification system. I’ve always liked the “save GM for National / Level 3 performance argument,” without realizing that in practice it would just take one of the widest classes in skill (M, for most divisions) and make it wider still.

 

If there’s 3XXXX members, and half of them go to more than 2 matches a year, there are still only XXX-XXXX members going to multiple level 3s. For the overwhelming majority of shooters, the classification system is the closest they get to a broad benchmark.

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Okay, got my pistol in and did a little work on the mag release. 
 

First few reloads and I can definitely see how it’d be about the same as Production / CO for the reloads. 

 

 

But having to only hit 92% HFs compared to a 95% CO/Production makes me happy. 
 

 

 

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22 minutes ago, Schutzenmeister said:

Sorry to break this to you, but looking at the freeze frame of your video as you posted it, your finger is definitely inside the trigger guard while reloading.  I suggest you work on that before you get caught in a match!


I’ll work on it!

Edited by -JCN-
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23 minutes ago, Schutzenmeister said:

Sorry to break this to you, but looking at the freeze frame of your video as you posted it, your finger is definitely inside the trigger guard while reloading.  I suggest you work on that before you get caught in a match!

 

I saw that too, what are the odds. Kinda funny.

 

 

6 minutes ago, -JCN- said:


I’ll take my chances, thanks! And c’mon, you’re not really sorry are you, lol. 

 

>10k reloads without an issue. That includes 2 pound triggers. 
 

Not that it’ll placate you, but even though my finger is inside the trigger guard, my fingertip is actually released off the face of the trigger and I’m just pinned on the side of the trigger blade with the flat part of the finger. 
 

You can see it a little better in the slo mo here. 
 

 

 

Probably not the best way to look at it. Maybe it never get's you in trouble but that's a clear DQ and I've seen plenty of rounds sent over berms on reloads. 

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23 minutes ago, waktasz said:

lol it's the thumbnail of the video

 

20 minutes ago, Racinready300ex said:

 

I saw that too, what are the odds. Kinda funny.

 

 

 

Probably not the best way to look at it. Maybe it never get's you in trouble but that's a clear DQ and I've seen plenty of rounds sent over berms on reloads. 


Ha! I suck. And changed the auto thumbnail. 
 

That’s the problem with being a home dry fire ninja… you get into the most efficient things that might not be the safest things!

 

You guys are right, it’s not allowed (I didn’t know that and had to look up the exact wording) so I’ll work on it!

 

Thankfully I’m competing in Open these days so hopefully not too many reloads. :D

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20 minutes ago, Racinready300ex said:

You might be getting on it a touch early here too really. 


From an efficiency standpoint, I’m rolling on the base of the side of the trigger and my trigger contact pad isn’t touching yet. 
 

From a philosophical standpoint it’s a grey area. 
 

@waktasz for a wide transition of 130 degrees, does the finger come out of the trigger guard during the transition because there are a few tenths where you’re not actually pointed at a target? 
 

I’ll try to get more daylight in the reload, but just wondering about transitions. 

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It's not a gray area. The rule says finger must be outside of the trigger guard, not "trigger must not be on the trigger"

No to the second answer but I almost don't want to answer that because you're showing your ass right now.

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9 minutes ago, waktasz said:

It's not a gray area. The rule says finger must be outside of the trigger guard, not "trigger must not be on the trigger"

No to the second answer but I almost don't want to answer that because you're showing your ass right now.


Yes. Outside of trigger guard while reloading. That’s clear. And by the rules. That was my error and I’ll work to fix it. 
 

But when does reloading end and when does engaging the next target begin?

 

Just like the transition question. 
 

Does a reload end when the magazine is fully seated? You’re not engaging the target yet and the sights aren’t on target yet…

 

But neither are you during a wide transition. 
 


 

 

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Basically I’m asking at what point is it kosher to get back on to prep a trigger during a reload phase. 
 

When you’re on target can be an answer, but it’s not the earliest answer (otherwise finger would have to come out of guard during transition). 

Edited by -JCN-
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The reload is done after the mag is inserted, per the glossary in the rulebook. 
In reality, once the gun is pointed in a safe direction and being presented toward the target, with both hands on the gun. 

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Thanks! I’m still pretty new to the sport and have a lot to learn about rules. 
 

I also just learned that movement means both feet move so a transition would be okay and shooting on the move with finger in guard would be okay if there aren’t too many steps in between shots? 

 

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