Leaving a loading device at starting position

[SergeRingo]

Can anyone assist in getting the right rule for the below scenario 

 

Cof description requires FIREARM AND ALL loading devices to be placed on a drum/table at start position. 

A shooter at the buzzer PICKS firearm and loads mag and takes only one magazine leaving unwanted mag behind at the start position. 

Is it a PE? 

[GmanCdp]

That is normally described in the COF and walk thru. Need to ask the So.

Have seen it done both with ways over the years.

[Thomas H]

If the COF doesn't specify, and the SO didn't give specific direction prior to the start of fire (equally to all competitors), they aren't justified in a PE after the fact.

[Jim Watson]

It is not usually required to take all that ammo with you.  Not never, but hardly ever.

 

I will still lay out both my reload magazines even if I don't mean to take and use them.

[SergeRingo]

Thanks. 

[SGT_Schultz]

On 9/19/2021 at 12:57 PM, SergeRingo said:

Can anyone assist in getting the right rule for the below scenario 

 

Cof description requires FIREARM AND ALL loading devices to be placed on a drum/table at start position. 

A shooter at the buzzer PICKS firearm and loads mag and takes only one magazine leaving unwanted mag behind at the start position. 

Is it a PE? 

 

You should be able to look in IDPA's rulebook and answer the question.

 

Oh wait......

[Qoholeth]

Situation occurred at recent Space Coast Challenge 2022 stage 5, basically gun loaded all spare ammo placed on table, on beep engage and at POC1 pickup spare ammo if needed proceed to complete COF. Competitor attempted to pickup 2 spare mags at table and stow. However he had difficulty stowing one of the spare mags and decided to leave it a the proscribed staging area  and he completed the course of fire successfully without needing it. Was issued a PE for leaving ammo behind. Protested to CSO and ultimately to MD. MD said PE, however could not supply the Rule section etc. Shooters argument was the ammo was staged prior to start and remained there after his attempt to stow (consumed too much time) during the course of fire as it was not needed. And further the written COF did not specify requirement to take/remove all spare ammo to complete the COF. Shooter was still issued a PE, without a clear rule book ruling. What say the experts here?

 

[Johnny_Chimpo]

2 hours ago, Qoholeth said:

Situation occurred at recent Space Coast Challenge 2022 stage 5, basically gun loaded all spare ammo placed on table, on beep engage and at POC1 pickup spare ammo if needed proceed to complete COF. Competitor attempted to pickup 2 spare mags at table and stow. However he had difficulty stowing one of the spare mags and decided to leave it a the proscribed staging area  and he completed the course of fire successfully without needing it. Was issued a PE for leaving ammo behind. Protested to CSO and ultimately to MD. MD said PE, however could not supply the Rule section etc. Shooters argument was the ammo was staged prior to start and remained there after his attempt to stow (consumed too much time) during the course of fire as it was not needed. And further the written COF did not specify requirement to take/remove all spare ammo to complete the COF. Shooter was still issued a PE, without a clear rule book ruling. What say the experts here?

 

 

I'd say stop wasting time on a "sport" like that and move on to USPSA where match officials have to justify penalties with a rule citation.

[Dacsoft]

On 5/24/2022 at 2:46 PM, Qoholeth said:

Situation occurred at recent Space Coast Challenge 2022 stage 5, basically gun loaded all spare ammo placed on table, on beep engage and at POC1 pickup spare ammo if needed proceed to complete COF. Competitor attempted to pickup 2 spare mags at table and stow. However he had difficulty stowing one of the spare mags and decided to leave it a the proscribed staging area  and he completed the course of fire successfully without needing it. Was issued a PE for leaving ammo behind. Protested to CSO and ultimately to MD. MD said PE, however could not supply the Rule section etc. Shooters argument was the ammo was staged prior to start and remained there after his attempt to stow (consumed too much time) during the course of fire as it was not needed. And further the written COF did not specify requirement to take/remove all spare ammo to complete the COF. Shooter was still issued a PE, without a clear rule book ruling. What say the experts here?

 

Strange that neither the CSO or MD could answer the question.  The CSO is extremely qualified.  The way I understood that stage was you didn't have to take all the magazines with you.  But once the shooter picked up the magazine and discarded it, he earned a PE by rule 3.4.7.