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Big leap in my understanding of Compensators


Snoopy47
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For the Original Poster, I wanted to point out that trying to achieve the goal of balancing the recoil spring weight & ammo load so that the slide only cycles far enough to eject the round but not bottom out on the frame in the full back position is a waste of time. All Semi Auto pistols are designed to have the slide bottom out on the frame every time the slide cycles. You actually need the slide to bottom out on the frame fairly hard to ensure reliable feeding of the next round because that ensures the proper Back/Forward slide velocity and momentum is achieved.

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11 hours ago, CalTeacher said:

I’m sorry, but getting a 2011 open gun in CA is not very difficult at all.  

Which 2011 frames are on the Roster?  Otherwise, it's a money chasing venture, not impossible, but comes at a premium of dollars and time, and magazine limitations not within "freedom week".

 

 

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13 hours ago, CHA-LEE said:

I just think its funny that people keep trying to make them work.

 

What is meant by "work"?

 

I've done two steel challenge matches so far without hangup. Granted, it's only Minor PF, but that's all it needs. 

 

My barrel/slide only tilts up 8 degrees during recoil, and the red dot is right back where it needs to be before I am even ready to fire again. 

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30 minutes ago, Snoopy47 said:

 

What is meant by "work"?

 

I've done two steel challenge matches so far without hangup. Granted, it's only Minor PF, but that's all it needs. 

 

Minor PF is much different than major PF, in regards to making GLOCKs function well, especially when trying to make it as soft and flat and with a 2lb trigger like a 2011.

 

33 minutes ago, Snoopy47 said:

My barrel/slide only tilts up 8 degrees during recoil, and the red dot is right back where it needs to be before I am even ready to fire again. 

how much it flips is really a non issue as long as it comes back to where it came from, especially at SCSA matches. I believe BJ won the Open division a year or two ago with a CO Glock.

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2 hours ago, Snoopy47 said:

 

What is meant by "work"?

 

I've done two steel challenge matches so far without hangup. Granted, it's only Minor PF, but that's all it needs. 

 

My barrel/slide only tilts up 8 degrees during recoil, and the red dot is right back where it needs to be before I am even ready to fire again. 

 

Here is a good analogy of your situation...... You can probably run blind folded across a busy highway several times before getting hit. But eventually you will get hit. Its not a matter of "IF" you will get hit, its only a matter of "WHEN" you will get hit. Running an Open Glock is the same scenario.

 

If you are shooting Minor ammo, then you don't even need a comp on the gun because there isn't enough gas generated to run the comp. A good analogy for this is "Let me put a wheelie bar on the back of my stock Honda Civic to keep it from popping a wheelie". Never mind that its front wheel drive or that it will never have enough Horsepower to make a wheelie bar even come into play.

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2 hours ago, Snoopy47 said:

 

What is meant by "work"?

 

I've done two steel challenge matches so far without hangup. Granted, it's only Minor PF, but that's all it needs. 

 

My barrel/slide only tilts up 8 degrees during recoil, and the red dot is right back where it needs to be before I am even ready to fire again. 

 

Glocks are made to shoot Minor so it's reasonable you can make one work fine for SC.

 

Now if you ever try to move to 9 major for USPSA and start to shoot 10k plus rounds in a year you'll likely see the limitations of the gun. I shot one for a season and I don't think I ever made it through a major with zero problems. The most notable issue was probably blowing the extractor out of the gun. 

 

I did dominate my club match that year, so I had that going for me. 

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4 hours ago, Snoopy47 said:

Which 2011 frames are on the Roster?  Otherwise, it's a money chasing venture, not impossible, but comes at a premium of dollars and time, and magazine limitations not within "freedom week".

 

 

 

SVI

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2 hours ago, CHA-LEE said:

 

Here is a good analogy of your situation...... You can probably run blind folded across a busy highway several times before getting hit. But eventually you will get hit. Its not a matter of "IF" you will get hit, its only a matter of "WHEN" you will get hit. Running an Open Glock is the same scenario.

 

If you are shooting Minor ammo, then you don't even need a comp on the gun because there isn't enough gas generated to run the comp. A good analogy for this is "Let me put a wheelie bar on the back of my stock Honda Civic to keep it from popping a wheelie". Never mind that its front wheel drive or that it will never have enough Horsepower to make a wheelie bar even come into play.

 

Excellent analogy, have had a bunch of friends try going the Open glock shooting major PF route to save a couple of pennies. ALL of them eventually regretted it and dumped it for a 2011 because the gun either did not run reliably or eventually beat itself up.

There's a reason no top guys use an open glock shooting major. 

Edited by ilovevtac
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hanging a comp on the end of a barrel changes the dynamics of how the gun works. it does not unlock the barrel at the same time in the same time a standard barrel will. hence you need more of a given powder to make one run. now making the comp itself work, well you need more slower burning powder to make a comp effective. feeding a gun the bare minimum of a non ideal powder for a comp, makes the comp a waste of money.

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A Major PF Open Glock that runs? Yep.

 

 

I know at least most of y'all have heard of SJC Custom. Pretty successful outfit in the aftermarket arena. Particularly for Glocks. But before that they made their name building Glock Open guns. And they worked.

 

The J stands for John. Local guy who thought the money for an S*I open gun was way high. He wondered why a much less expensive option, like a Glock wouldn't work. He set about studying the question with a tight focus. 

 

I'll tell you why I think his guns worked in just a second.

 

Cha-Lee and others have made accurate claims about KC's Glock Open gun when he was the factory shooter. They 'looked' cool, and had a hot new name associated with them, but they were not Glocks. I was working with KC then and asked him a lot of questions about the guns after majors, particularly when he said it failed. At least for the ones I talked to him about, just about every one was a Feed Failure. Hmmm...

 

Last thing. . .Dave Sevigny won a truck load of National, Area and State/Sectional titles shooting Glocks. Pulled down a couple of World titles, too, IIRC (maybe it was 3?). Dave shot Glocks with only OEM parts in them. Not tricked-out, ZEVed-out space shooters. Just OEM Glocks.   BUT, he always competed in Production because it only required a maximum of 10-rounds per mag. Hmmm...

 

At some point Dave wanted to campaign the Glock in Limited, and with his skill would have whipped most, and maybe sometimes All of folks with all-steel S*I blasters. He's done it in Production. But he couldn't make the guns reliable with extended basepads. With Glocks assistance he got onto every extension and spring available. And know this - he was very analytical and methodical in his trials. In the end he said no combination he could come up with was reliable enough to risk a Major win on.  He shared that with me as a squad mate at a local L1 match before I went to work there (I asked).

 

I hope some of y'all just caught onto something. Extensions on Glock magazines work, but they're not reliable enough

9mm Major Glocks worked, but limited to only 10-rounds to be reliable, what good were they? Not much, for trophies. 

 

**The point of all this is, John Nagle of SJC built 9mm Major guns that RAN with the maximum capacity, for length of mags allowed, because he didn't use mag extensions. A good bit of his business back then was taking factory 31-round G-18 mags made for the full-auto giggle-gun, and cutting them down to 170mm. NO extensions, and they worked

 

I think that's why KC's guns didn't work. A lesson Dave had already proved to himself in private, and which KC unfortunately learned in public.

 

***Any of you young entrepreneur types with machining skills who can cut down mags like that today would likely do a brisk business. 

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I know. But while not a factory warranty tech, I worked on a few hundred Glocks, at matches. 

Maybe half(?) were repaired by replacing aftermarket parts with factory parts.

No sh!t.

Maybe more. 

 

All I'm saying is that I've personally seen factory mags cut down that worked, and I've seen aftermarket mags that meet the requisite dimensions, that did not. I'd stick with OEM mags that were appropriately modified. I do remember people talking about how difficult it was to cut them down and make them work, but if John could do it maybe somebody else could do it today. 

 

I'd like to see that level of real competition between manufacturers. 

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A bit out of topic.
When I migrated to Open years ago My Open glock 17 in my profile worked in 9 major after some tweaking. I used gk 17 mags w/ taylor freelance extension to 170mm. Im in ipsc country so my pf was in the 165-170 range. Only the mini red dots wont last to 3k rnds so I used the old cmore sliderides. I had 2 of such pistols then. I shoot them a lot w/ regularity. One problem I foresee in gk Open set up in 9 major is it can fire a bit out of battery. W/ major pf in 9mm I decided not to risk it. If gk has them in .38super I would not change to 2011s. 

CA151528-FD63-4705-A9F5-18B1A29447BD.jpeg

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46 minutes ago, BoyGlock said:

A bit out of topic.
When I migrated to Open years ago My Open glock 17 in my profile worked in 9 major after some tweaking. I used gk 17 mags w/ taylor freelance extension to 170mm. Im in ipsc country so my pf was in the 165-170 range. Only the mini red dots wont last to 3k rnds so I used the old cmore sliderides. I had 2 of such pistols then. I shoot them a lot w/ regularity. One problem I foresee in gk Open set up in 9 major is it can fire a bit out of battery. W/ major pf in 9mm I decided not to risk it. If gk has them in .38super I would not change to 2011s. 

CA151528-FD63-4705-A9F5-18B1A29447BD.jpeg

 

I heard the Timney trigger reduces fire out of battery (no experience) 

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Question as i'm learning about open, why not just run .38 super comp or .40 instead of 9mm major ? And on a serious note if you are loading way above spec and god forbid the gun lets go and a bystander gets hurt done anybody every worry they have that door wide open for major litigation ? 

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33 minutes ago, Sinister4 said:

Question as i'm learning about open, why not just run .38 super comp or .40 instead of 9mm major ? And on a serious note if you are loading way above spec and god forbid the gun lets go and a bystander gets hurt done anybody every worry they have that door wide open for major litigation ? 

 

Most people run 9 because brass is cheap. That's the only reason. 

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35 minutes ago, Racinready300ex said:

 

Most people run 9 because brass is cheap. That's the only reason. 

 figured,  " I have 3  9000.00 pistols but worry about brass cost"    they should try national level trap shooting for a while lol

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19 minutes ago, Sinister4 said:

 figured,  " I have 3  9000.00 pistols but worry about brass cost"    they should try national level trap shooting for a while lol

 

Yeah, I didn't say it makes sense. To make it worse, i know guys who buy once fired 9, load it shoot it once and leave it. They're saving money in their eyes shooting 9. Mean while you can buy once fired or new 38 super and use it over and over again and end up spending less on brass than the 9mm guy. The catch is obviously you have to spend time picking it up. 

 

In my area Open isn't really vary popular. I have 2, 38 Supers sitting in the safe I haven't shot in several years. 

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7 hours ago, Sinister4 said:

Question as i'm learning about open, why not just run .38 super comp or .40 instead of 9mm major ? And on a serious note if you are loading way above spec and god forbid the gun lets go and a bystander gets hurt done anybody every worry they have that door wide open for major litigation ? 

I have both 38sc and 9 major guns. 38sc does literally everything better than 9 major BUT it's like 20 cents per case which means buying it is gonna set you back 220$ for every thousand. 

I shot 2 matches a month so that means 1 month plus 1 match is what I can shoot on 1k brass

 

9 major brass is like 5 cents per round so we're talking 50$ for 1k rounds.

Also it's way easier to buy 5 or 10k bulk 9mm casings because it's literally everywhere

The military and police don't use 38sc as a normal round so it's much harder to find 

 

I never have any concerns about shooting above spec. The open guns are built to handle it

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6 hours ago, Racinready300ex said:

 

Yeah, I didn't say it makes sense. To make it worse, i know guys who buy once fired 9, load it shoot it once and leave it. They're saving money in their eyes shooting 9. Mean while you can buy once fired or new 38 super and use it over and over again and end up spending less on brass than the 9mm guy. The catch is obviously you have to spend time picking it up. 

 

In my area Open isn't really vary popular. I have 2, 38 Supers sitting in the safe I haven't shot in several years. 

Just be a pimp and load the 38sc once and shoot it once and then leave it on the range. 

It's not a concern if you buy 50k 38sc brass at the start of each year :)

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2 minutes ago, AverageJoeShooting said:

Just be a pimp and load the 38sc once and shoot it once and then leave it on the range. 

It's not a concern if you buy 50k 38sc brass at the start of each year :)

 

These days just having 50k primers in more pimp than shooting 38.

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On 9/14/2021 at 11:31 PM, CHA-LEE said:

Good luck getting an Open Glock to function reliably........ Even "Team Glock" couldn't make it happen with unlimited resources.


yeah, Carry Optics is about as close to Open as you should let your Glock get. 
 

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