CO - size of dot

[Stafford]

Does the size of the red dot (frame and lens) make much of a difference in picking up the dot? I'm running a Holosun which looks very small compared to some of the others I see in Carry Optics.  But, I don't have much experience with any others. Just wondering if a bigger frame and lens helps or if it doesn't really matter. 

[zzt]

I prefer a larger lens for everything USPSA.  My current fav is the SRO.

[davsco]

the larger the lens, the higher that dot is going to sit up, which is a problem for some folks like me that go back and forth between irons and optics.  everything's a trade-off...  i have a couple of vortex vipers, seem to have the lowest dot above the bottom of the base distance that i've seen from various specs.  but a smaller window.

[Stafford]

I run a Holosun which looks like a micro red dot compared to the SRO. But, it was the recommended dot for those with astigmatism. Get a Holosun with an 8 MOA and turn it down to kill the blurry effect. So, I never really looked at any others. I'll have to try some others and see.

[Boomstick303]

With larger windows it’s possible to keep the dot in the glass when using proper grip during recoil. This makes follow shots much easier in that your eyes always will see the dot/streak.  When the dot/streak leaves the observed glass during recoil your eye has to pick it up again as it “reenters” observed glass. Sig Romeo 3 Max/XL and SRO for competition are the optics I choose for this reason. 

 

I also have an astigmatism so I prefer larger dots because the edges seemed more refined, less bursting effect. I do find my astigmatism gets worse the more dehydrated I get. The more hydrated I am the crisper the dot is. 

Edited September 5, 2021 by Boomstick303

[dapribek]

I tried 2 other dots and went with the 5.0 SRO. Big glass and dot, perfect!

[AverageJoeShooting]

I run a 10 moa and wish I had larger. I'm in open. The best dot I ever used was the 510c. I know it's huge and looks like an 80s tv ontop of your gun, but man using that entire holoring with the dot was amazing.

[coryf]

The size of the window isn't as important to me as the height.  I like the dot as low to the slide as possible.  All my dots are 6moa which for me is a good balance.  Sometimes I feel like a smaller dot would help in accuracy for the long, tight shots but overall the 6 works well everywhere.  I have lost the dot on a draw with a small window optic on strange/abnormal starting positions, but its nothing that more training wouldn't have taken care of.    

[Lightj75]

I recently switched from a holosun 507c to the 5.0 moa SRO and I like the bigger window alot. Not that there is anything wrong with the holosun it performed flawlessly and I really like the solar failsafe feature and shake awake. I have only shot one match with the SRO but I think the larger view is going to work out well in the end but it is a bit clunky compared to the holosun

[45 Raven]

I have been shooting a Shadow 1 with a 5 MOA dot in an SRO optic for the past year.  Had very little optic experience on a pistol prior to that.

 

I was surprised to learn that from the very beginning, I had very little difficulty in learning to acquire the dot upon presentation of the pistol.  I'm sure the larger window had a lot to do with it, but the challenges I expected when transitioning from iron to optic sights simply never happened.   

 

But the thing that I surely never expected . . . . . after a period of six months of shooting optic sights exclusively, I shot a couple of matches with an identical Shadow 1 pistol, sans optic.  To me, it seemed that I was able to pick up my front iron sight and consistently break my first shot in less time than I had before using the optic sight.  In the beginning, I decided it was just my imagination, and I didn't mention it to anyone.

 

I started shooting about 1/4 of my matches with iron sights for the next couple of months, and during that time, I had three or four experienced shooters who I had been shooting with for years make completely unsolicited observations that they thought I was faster from the holster to the first shot with iron sights than I had ever been since they had been shooting with me.  I guess that confirms that it isn't my imagination.

 

But . . . . I have NOT tested this on the clock.  That will be my next step.

 

In any event, I found it interesting.

 

 

[Stafford]

45 Raven, I think what you're experiencing is normal. Apparently, as you adjust to the dot, you become more "target focused" as opposed to front sight focused. Essentially, your eyes adjust to seeing the target, presenting the pistol toward the target, and the dot should appear on the target. As opposed to pointing the pistol and trying to find the dot and put it on the target.

 

When you return to irons, you present the pistol at the target and now the irons are there already. As opposed to pointing and focusing on your front sight. 

 

 

 

[Effectus Magis Per Minor]

I have been shooting a Shield SMS 2.5 MOA for a few years and about 8 months ago went with the Shield SMS2 with an 8MOA dot. I find the larger dot much quicker to pick up and I did not lose any precision.

The view screen of the Shield sight is not huge, but it has a thin support ring around it which disappears for me when shooting and the polymer lens does not have a coating on it so the dot appears the same, even in slanted sun (no multi dots like the RMR and some others).

[RAP]

I have used the DPP 7.5 triangle for the past 4years on my carry optics guns. The size of the big triangle dot is very easy for my eyes to pick up. However, the large triangle made far and tough shots on hard cover and no shots harder. I switched to the Crimson Trace 3.25” dot and while I could make the tougher shots easier and more precise. My eyes did not pick up the smaller dot as fast. Although it wasn’t that much slower. 
 

I am now using the DPP 6 MOA dot and for me it’s the right balance of size for ease of seeing the dot and small enough the far and tough shots are not an issue. 
 

As for the window size. The DPP has a much larger window then the Crimson Trace. But I did not have any problem with the smaller Crimson Trace window. I practiced shooting hard leans and positions so it wasn’t any problems.

[Intheshaw1]

@45 Raven I've heard that happening to a few people and hope it happens to me as well. I started shooting CO exclusively this year with the plan that if 3gun matches start up again those will be with irons.

 

I do plan to run some drills on the clock with both guns later this year after the season here ends and see how different the times are and if I'm faster. I have found myself to be much faster and more accurate with a dot and shooting while moving seems to be easier as well.

[45 Raven]

On 9/6/2021 at 11:51 AM, Stafford said:

45 Raven, I think what you're experiencing is normal. Apparently, as you adjust to the dot, you become more "target focused" as opposed to front sight focused. Essentially, your eyes adjust to seeing the target, presenting the pistol toward the target, and the dot should appear on the target. As opposed to pointing the pistol and trying to find the dot and put it on the target.

 

When you return to irons, you present the pistol at the target and now the irons are there already. As opposed to pointing and focusing on your front sight. 

 

 

 

Thanks for this feedback.  I completely agree that it has been my shift to a target focus that has created this ability to acquire focus on iron sights faster than I previously experienced.  But it is certainly nice to hear that theory supported by someone else.

[45 Raven]

20 hours ago, Intheshaw1 said:

@45 Raven I've heard that happening to a few people and hope it happens to me as well. I started shooting CO exclusively this year with the plan that if 3gun matches start up again those will be with irons.

 

I do plan to run some drills on the clock with both guns later this year after the season here ends and see how different the times are and if I'm faster. I have found myself to be much faster and more accurate with a dot and shooting while moving seems to be easier as well.

Thanks for this feedback.  I would certainly be interested in a report depicting your findings after you run the drills you mentioned on the clock.  In retrospect, I wish I had run drills with iron sights prior to using optic sights so I could use that data to compare to "post-optic" iron sight performance.

[Intheshaw1]

2 hours ago, 45 Raven said:

Thanks for this feedback.  I would certainly be interested in a report depicting your findings after you run the drills you mentioned on the clock.  In retrospect, I wish I had run drills with iron sights prior to using optic sights so I could use that data to compare to "post-optic" iron sight performance.

Yeah, I didn't establish a baseline either. I'm going to focus more on if I can still have some of the accuracy and speed of the dot with irons and hopefully translate it to some 3gun matches.

 

I'm loving the dot tho and have a hard time in wanting to go back to irons.

[SGT_Schultz]

9 hours ago, 45 Raven said:

Thanks for this feedback.  I would certainly be interested in a report depicting your findings after you run the drills you mentioned on the clock.  In retrospect, I wish I had run drills with iron sights prior to using optic sights so I could use that data to compare to "post-optic" iron sight performance.

 

I have the data in terms of match results.

 

My worst level 2 match of the year was the one I shot with irons (Production)

[Michael303]

On 9/5/2021 at 7:52 AM, davsco said:

the larger the lens, the higher that dot is going to sit up, which is a problem for some folks like me that go back and forth between irons and optics. 

Can you expand on your theory here?  I'm not sure what I'm missing as the dot can be seen in any part of the window including right on top of the irons.

[Boomstick303]

9 minutes ago, Michael303 said:

Can you expand on your theory here? 

 

It would seem like he is talking about height over bore, where the dot is higher over the iron sights on the bore.  Therefore the holds would be different.  Possibly indexing irons versus the dot would be different.  

 

I would think if you are using a plate adapter versus being a direct mount to the slide would have more effect than size of the glass size.  I have not tested any of that so I could not say one way or the other.

[Uomu]

6MOA for competition and concealed carried too.

 

[safety1st]

6moa on a big lens like SRO or Romeo 3XL seem to be the best for me

[BeerBaron]

see if you can get a look at someone’s rts2. I have pretty bad astigmatism and I prefer it over the others. It has a nice low profile body and excellent dot brightness. Plus it comes in a wide range of dot sizes from 2-10moa. I prefer the 8 personally. 
 

im not that keen on getting co witnessed iron sights for a competition gun. The whole point of having the dot is that it’s meant to be faster than irons. If you need to use the irons to find that dot I have a feeling that’s not the fastest option. 

Edited November 16, 2021 by BeerBaron

[Bakerjd]

I am really liking my alpha 3 8MOA on my 320 legion.