Blue Bullets in a CZ Shadow2?

[George16]

9 minutes ago, HOGRIDER said:

IHAVE:

I saw this also; and decided I'd contact Angus about barrel reaming. 

 

Thanks for your feedback!

 

It all depends on the CZ model. For comparison, my TSO and Czechmate barrels can accommodate up to 1.155” OAL using the same type of bullet (124 Gr PD, 125 Gr BB RN, RMR 147 TCFP) but my shadow 2 barrel can only accommodate up to 1.110” for the PD 124/BB 125 RN. For the RMR 147 TCFP, max was 1.104” OAL.
 

I didn’t like how short I would have to load the 147 so I decided to just use the Precision Delta 124 JHP since that the bullet I use the most for my guns and PCC anyway.

 

Keep in mind also that the shadow 2 barrels are hardened compared to the TSO/czechmate which are not hardened. I had @MemphisMechanicream my czechmate barrels so I can load up to 1.170” OAL and there wasn’t any change in accuracy at all while keeping my shadow 2 barrel stock.

[lll Otto lll]

6 hours ago, IHAVEGAS said:

 

 There's a difference between reaming the chamber and reaming the throat.  Dave Manson sells the proper throaters and headspace will not be altered. 
Alternatively, you can send the barrel to Grams Engineering or Cheely Custom Gunworks.  

[slowhands]

1 hour ago, HOGRIDER said:

slow:

I forgot to ask.............what diameter bullets did your S2 prefer for consistency and accuracy?  The .355" or .356"?

 

Thanks!

 

I was running .356 SNS bullets first, so I stuck with that size in BB. Both SNS 135gr RN and BB 135gr FP are very accurate in my S2. I don't know if .355 would have been less accurate, but some S2 barrels apparently don't like them as much.

[HOGRIDER]

1 hour ago, George16 said:

It all depends on the CZ model. For comparison, my TSO and Czechmate barrels can accommodate up to 1.155” OAL using the same type of bullet (124 Gr PD, 125 Gr BB RN, RMR 147 TCFP) but my shadow 2 barrel can only accommodate up to 1.110” for the PD 124/BB 125 RN. For the RMR 147 TCFP, max was 1.104” OAL.
 

I didn’t like how short I would have to load the 147 so I decided to just use the Precision Delta 124 JHP since that the bullet I use the most for my guns and PCC anyway.

 

Keep in mind also that the shadow 2 barrels are hardened compared to the TSO/czechmate which are not hardened. I had @MemphisMechanicream my czechmate barrels so I can load up to 1.170” OAL and there wasn’t any change in accuracy at all while keeping my shadow 2 barrel stock.

George:

Thanks for your detailed explanation!  Sure helping me to learn the aspects of reaming (or not)! 

 

Always a pleasure to read your posts!

 

[HOGRIDER]

9 minutes ago, slowhands said:

 

I was running .356 SNS bullets first, so I stuck with that size in BB. Both SNS 135gr RN and BB 135gr FP are very accurate in my S2. I don't know if .355 would have been less accurate, but some S2 barrels apparently don't like them as much.

slow:

Thanks for sharing your details!  I so have some 147g Acme and Bayous that are .356".  Also have some Bayou 135g coated at .356".  

 

I think I'll load a few of the Acme and the Blues, and see what diameter the S2 prefers.  I did notice that Blue offers their popular 9mm bullets in .355" AND .356"!

 

Thanks again!

[GMM50]

We come across the same problems with revolvers.  The S&W 929 chamber has a great chamber the accepts a wide array of bullet shapes.  Dave Olhasso who is at the 2021 IRC this week but he has developed reamers that make these tighter chambers more forgiving.

[twodownzero]

5 hours ago, HOGRIDER said:

two:

Since I've never owned a pistol that needed the barrel reamed, I guess I'm a bit ignorant on the benefits of doing so. And since this is my first CZ, that I love to shoot, I thought I'd run the idea of reaming by Angus for his opinion.  He replied:

 

I haven't either, until I bought a CZ.  But I knew before I even bought it that their chambers are ridiculous, and mine was off to @MemphisMechanicfor reaming before I shot even a single round from it. Angus is  also just completely wrong; a 150 grain RN bullet at SAAMI max would be .090" from the slide closing and I do not think it's safe to load them short enough to chamber (and you will not find published data for loading big, heavy bullets that short).   A friend of mine had to back his load down 20% to load that short, and even then, a tiny change in COAL could result in dangerous pressures.  No thanks!  He's also wrong about screwing up the headspace--a throating reamer does not touch the headspace reference surface.  I know there are people there content with shooting 115s, or loading heavy bullets at 1.080", but for me, having loaded for a ton of different 9mm pistols, there's just no reason for CZ to insist on special snowflake ammo that is one minor bullet setback away from a kaboom.

[HOGRIDER]

1 hour ago, twodownzero said:

 

I haven't either, until I bought a CZ.  But I knew before I even bought it that their chambers are ridiculous, and mine was off to @MemphisMechanicfor reaming before I shot even a single round from it. Angus is  also just completely wrong; a 150 grain RN bullet at SAAMI max would be .090" from the slide closing and I do not think it's safe to load them short enough to chamber (and you will not find published data for loading big, heavy bullets that short).   A friend of mine had to back his load down 20% to load that short, and even then, a tiny change in COAL could result in dangerous pressures.  No thanks!  He's also wrong about screwing up the headspace--a throating reamer does not touch the headspace reference surface.  I know there are people there content with shooting 115s, or loading heavy bullets at 1.080", but for me, having loaded for a ton of different 9mm pistols, there's just no reason for CZ to insist on special snowflake ammo that is one minor bullet setback away from a kaboom.

two:

FWIW, when I first got the S2O, I had a match coming up and had not started reloading for it yet.  Had a bunch of the Federal 150g Syntecs I had purchased for the wife, and a club member recommended I shoot them at the match as they were a fully approved USPSA load right out of the box.  I did, and they shot/functioned very well!  Accuracy was very good!  What struck me as odd, was the OALs of this particular batch averaged 1.115"!  A few boxes I received recently averaged 1.125".

 

I understand your comments on loading short and all the possibilities of (major) failures that are very real!

 

I have a sample pack of BB 147g FPs I'm going to try at 1.120".  I also want to try and secure a sample pack of the same bullet but with a .356" diameter.  Plan on calling Blue on Tuesday to see how long a wait I would have on some.

 

Thanks again for your comments!

 

[IHAVEGAS]

Sold my shadow 2 and forget which bullet I was using when I had it. 

 

For an SP01 , an 85, a CZ compact and a couple 75's - SNS 147 TC loaded to 1.15 works well for me. Apparently that bullet does not have a 'fat shoulder'. At shorter lengths I was getting 1 or 2 ftf's per match. I've never seen the need to touch any of the barrels for any of the bullets I've tried, but I am sure that folks who report that some bullets cause problems in CZ's are not just making that up. 

 

[HOGRIDER]

29 minutes ago, IHAVEGAS said:

Sold my shadow 2 and forget which bullet I was using when I had it. 

 

For an SP01 , an 85, a CZ compact and a couple 75's - SNS 147 TC loaded to 1.15 works well for me. Apparently that bullet does not have a 'fat shoulder'. At shorter lengths I was getting 1 or 2 ftf's per match. I've never seen the need to touch any of the barrels for any of the bullets I've tried, but I am sure that folks who report that some bullets cause problems in CZ's are not just making that up. 

 

IHAVE:

Thanks for that info!

 

Is this the 147TC profile you speak of?  

 

https://www.snscasting.com/new-9mm-147-grain-flat-point-red-coated-500ct/

 

[IHAVEGAS]

55 minutes ago, HOGRIDER said:

Is this the 147TC profile you speak of?  

Yep. 

 

[HOGRIDER]

14 minutes ago, IHAVEGAS said:

Yep. 

 

[Blackstone45]

On 9/4/2021 at 3:16 AM, HOGRIDER said:

two:

While I can fully appreciate you having your barrel reamed for that standard OAL range, I can no way justify modifying the barrel in my S2 Orange when it's producing groups like this with my reloads!

 

These match reloads have an OAL of 1.125" and will work just fine in the S2O, and all my other 9mm pistols.  I can go with an OAL of 1.120" with the BB 147g FP, and definitely look forward to your feedback!

 

THANKS!

 

That's an outstanding group - what velocity are you getting with that load?

[HOGRIDER]

2 minutes ago, Blackstone45 said:

That's an outstanding group - what velocity are you getting with that load?

Let me see if I can copy and paste the results...........two back to back tests:

 

Zero 147g JHP, OAL=1.125"
Temperature: 62*
Pressure: 30.05
Bullet Weight: 147.0
Power Factor Average: 133
Power Factor Low: 130
Power Factor High: 134
Number of Shots: 10
Minimum: 891
Maximum: 917
Spread: 26
Average: 906
Standard Deviation: 8
# Velocity Ft/lbs Power Factor Date
10 906 267.90 133 5/6/21 4:33 PM
9 917 274.45 134 5/6/21 4:33 PM
8 906 267.90 133 5/6/21 4:33 PM
7 891 259.11 130 5/6/21 4:33 PM
6 905 267.31 133 5/6/21 4:32 PM
5 916 273.85 134 5/6/21 4:32 PM
4 897 262.61 131 5/6/21 4:32 PM
3 908 269.09 133 5/6/21 4:32 PM
2 914 272.66 134 5/6/21 4:31 PM
1 904 266.72 132 5/6/21 4:31 PM

Zero 147g JHP, OAL=1.125"
Temperature: 59*
Pressure: 30.03
Bullet Weight: 147.0
Power Factor Average: 132
Power Factor Low: 131
Power Factor High: 133
Number of Shots: 10
Minimum: 897
Maximum: 910
Spread: 13
Average: 902
Standard Deviation: 4
# Velocity Ft/lbs Power Factor Date
10 901 264.96 132 5/6/21 4:23 PM
9 910 270.28 133 5/6/21 4:23 PM
8 900 264.37 132 5/6/21 4:22 PM
7 903 266.13 132 5/6/21 4:22 PM
6 898 263.19 132 5/6/21 4:22 PM
5 900 264.37 132 5/6/21 4:22 PM
4 897 262.61 131 5/6/21 4:21 PM
3 902 265.54 132 5/6/21 4:21 PM
2 907 268.50 133 5/6/21 4:21 PM
1 905 267.31 133 5/6/21 4:20 PM

 

[MemphisMechanic]

On 9/5/2021 at 2:44 PM, lll Otto lll said:

 There's a difference between reaming the chamber and reaming the throat.  Dave Manson sells the proper throaters and headspace will not be altered. 
Alternatively, you can send the barrel to Grams Engineering or Cheely Custom Gunworks.  

The reamers and shops @lll Otto lll mentioned will do a great job on a Czechmate and all CZ-75 series guns, including an SP-01 (Shadow 1). But they the hardened barrel steel of a P-09, P10, or a Shadow 2 will destroy their reamers. The barrel is harder than the tool.

 

Edited September 11, 2021 by MemphisMechanic

[lll Otto lll]

^^ Patriot Defense does hardened barrels for $59,  standard for $39.   https://patriotdefense.com/patriot-defense-9mm-barrel-reaming-hard-coating-melonite-dlc/
Shipping included.
 

Edited September 11, 2021 by lll Otto lll

[Nathanb]

4 hours ago, lll Otto lll said:

^^ Patriot Defense does hardened barrels for $59,  standard for $39.   https://patriotdefense.com/patriot-defense-9mm-barrel-reaming-hard-coating-melonite-dlc/
Shipping included.
 

They did both of mine and the turnaround was crazy fast. 

[MemphisMechanic]

On 9/11/2021 at 12:46 PM, lll Otto lll said:

^^ Patriot Defense does hardened barrels for $59,  standard for $39.   https://patriotdefense.com/patriot-defense-9mm-barrel-reaming-hard-coating-melonite-dlc/
Shipping included.
 

Sweet! I didn’t know they’d procured some carbide reamers. Thanks for sharing that.  

[chgofirefighter]

I've been using BB TC for about 3  yeasr through my CZ Orange and Blue 125gr TC .356 profile, 1.130 OAL 3.8gr of SP.  I've never used .355 profile, but .356 seems to work extremely well.

[HOGRIDER]

So I finally found some time to work up a ladder with the .356" sized 147g FPs with N320.  While at it, I decided to work up a small ladder using the 135g TCs.  Settling on a 1.120" OAL for both rounds, they hand cycled perfectly in the S2 Orange. 

 

Not being real familiar with the 135TCs, I loaded a test batch with 3.6g (N320)and another test batch with 3.7gs based on what info I could search for here on the forum.

 

Question:  For those using the 135 TCs in your Shadow2 platforms, does it sound like I'm in the ball park for a 132-133 power factor?

 

Appreciate all the help!

 

[HOGRIDER]

On 9/15/2021 at 3:18 AM, chgofirefighter said:

I've been using BB TC for about 3  yeasr through my CZ Orange and Blue 125gr TC .356 profile, 1.130 OAL 3.8gr of SP.  I've never used .355 profile, but .356 seems to work extremely well.

Thanks chgo!

 

  

[Scootertheshooter]

I never used blue Bullets but may give them a try