Wisconsin Sectional

[ltdmstr]

So, I'm signed to shoot the Wisconsin Sectional in a couple of weeks and just got a look at the stage diagrams.  Turns out the match is a total of 10 stages with a round count of 181.  Not trying to be a d*ck, but isn't that kinda light for a Level II match?  And before everyone jumps in with something about the ammo shortage, I shot the Michigan and Illinois Sectionals the past month or so and both were 12 stages and 300+ rounds.  Same for the other LII I'm doing at the end of September.  And far as I'm aware, all those were at or near capacity.  The other thing that's odd about the WI match is it's 100% IPSC targets and no UPSA targets (plus steel), which I've never seen before.

[Rnlinebacker]

Match director prefers IPSC style short to medium courses. We just went through that at A8

[ltdmstr]

Ok I guess on the IPSC targets.  Any reason for the tiny stages (7, 8, 12, 15, 16) and overall low round count?  181 is on par with a local club match that's 1/5 the cost.

[Rnlinebacker]

Area 8 was pretty low  round count for the last two years compared to previous match director and range. Area 5 is also low round count compared to years past. Some MDs like that flavor for whatever reason

[ltdmstr]

Not sure how that makes sense for shooters that have to travel to the match.  It's hard to justify $500+ for basically 5 field courses and under 200 rounds total.

[SGT_Schultz]

1 hour ago, ltdmstr said:

Not sure how that makes sense for shooters that have to travel to the match.  It's hard to justify $500+ for basically 5 field courses and under 200 rounds total.

 

I'd rather shoot a highly technical sectional that consumes 180 rounds than one that is a dumb hosefest that burns 300.

[ltdmstr]

50 minutes ago, SGT_Schultz said:

 

I'd rather shoot a highly technical sectional that consumes 180 rounds than one that is a dumb hosefest that burns 300.

 

True.  But those two options aren't mutually exclusive.  I'd prefer technically challenging with a decent round count.  Which is what used to be the norm for Area and Sectional matches.

[SGT_Schultz]

4 hours ago, ltdmstr said:

  181 is on par with a local club match that's 1/5 the cost.

 

I've only been shooting seriously since 2019 but I've never been to a level 1 where one spent more than 140 - 150 rounds.

[MikeBurgess]

15 hours ago, ltdmstr said:

So, I'm signed to shoot the Wisconsin Sectional in a couple of weeks and just got a look at the stage diagrams.  Turns out the match is a total of 10 stages with a round count of 181.  Not trying to be a d*ck, but isn't that kinda light for a Level II match?  And before everyone jumps in with something about the ammo shortage, I shot the Michigan and Illinois Sectionals the past month or so and both were 12 stages and 300+ rounds.  Same for the other LII I'm doing at the end of September.  And far as I'm aware, all those were at or near capacity.  The other thing that's odd about the WI match is it's 100% IPSC targets and no UPSA targets (plus steel), which I've never seen before.

round count does not have any correlation to good stage design 

[Darqusoull13]

Don't worry, by the end of the match I'm sure everyone will have fired more than 181 rounds 

Some of my favorite stages have been short and medium courses. I'd wait to pass judgement until actually shooting any match. 

[ltdmstr]

4 hours ago, MikeBurgess said:

round count does not have any correlation to good stage design 

 

Never said it does.  Simply said 181 seems low for a LII match.  Which it is.

[EEH]

I shoot two matches that has that round count almost every month .

[Out of Ammo]

At last month's Illinois Sectional, I heard a couple of shooters complain about the heat and saying it should have been a 10 stage and not a 12 stage match.  I don't know, maybe the heat should be taken into consideration.  

[SGT_Schultz]

34 minutes ago, Out of Ammo said:

At last month's Illinois Sectional, I heard a couple of shooters complain about the heat and saying it should have been a 10 stage and not a 12 stage match.  I don't know, maybe the heat should be taken into consideration.  

 

Physical fitness is important.

[ltdmstr]

3 hours ago, Out of Ammo said:

At last month's Illinois Sectional, I heard a couple of shooters complain about the heat and saying it should have been a 10 stage and not a 12 stage match.  I don't know, maybe the heat should be taken into consideration.  

 

Yeah, it was pretty warm both Saturday and Sunday.  Probably got to the mid 90s.  But I didn't see anyone having problems.  We had the shooters meeting on Sunday and soon as the MD said the last word, it started raining.  But even with the heat and some rain, it was still a really fun match. 

[aandabooks]

4 hours ago, Out of Ammo said:

At last month's Illinois Sectional, I heard a couple of shooters complain about the heat and saying it should have been a 10 stage and not a 12 stage match.  I don't know, maybe the heat should be taken into consideration.  

Not possible to know what the weather is going to be a couple months in advance when the stages are getting planned and submitted.  For all we would have known it could have been in the 70s that weekend and then people would be bitching that it was only 10 stages and there were open bays that could have been used.

[Out of Ammo]

10 hours ago, aandabooks said:

Not possible to know what the weather is going to be a couple months in advance when the stages are getting planned and submitted.  For all we would have known it could have been in the 70s that weekend and then people would be bitching that it was only 10 stages and there were open bays that could have been used.

I agree and it was a great match to shoot.

[TonytheTiger]

On 9/4/2021 at 3:57 PM, Out of Ammo said:

At last month's Illinois Sectional, I heard a couple of shooters complain about the heat and saying it should have been a 10 stage and not a 12 stage match.  I don't know, maybe the heat should be taken into consideration.  

If people had to be this imaginative to come up with something to complain about it must've been a great match.

[Bakerjd]

IL Sectional was a great match with solid stages. MI sectional while having a higher round count was an ok match. Buckeye Blast was also a good match as usual. 

 

I shoot probably 7 or so majors a year and find you get one of two things. Technical with lower round count, or hose fest and high round count. Not very often have I seen a technical match that had just enough hose style stages to make everyone like it. 

 

As for all IPSC targets at a match.... go shoot the FL Open, all IPSC targets and probably the single hardest match most will ever shoot. Half targets and 30yrds on swingers with two inch black tape at the bottom of the targets. Lots of long shots, multiple ways to shoot each stage, ect.. The FL Open is an awesome match though.

[MikeBurgess]

On 9/3/2021 at 12:07 PM, ltdmstr said:

 

Never said it does.  Simply said 181 seems low for a LII match.  Which it is.

then I'm confused

If we agree that round count has no impact on good stages then I don't understand the issue.

Does an 10 stage match were there are 20 shooting locations where they added an extra target for no reason other than to up the round count do you have a better match? does the match somehow become a better value?

 

[ltdmstr]

46 minutes ago, MikeBurgess said:

then I'm confused

If we agree that round count has no impact on good stages then I don't understand the issue.

Does an 10 stage match were there are 20 shooting locations where they added an extra target for no reason other than to up the round count do you have a better match? does the match somehow become a better value?

 

 

Right.  And low round count stages can suck just as bad as a high round count hoser stages.  Typically at a LII or higher you can expect more elaborate and "challenging" stages with multiple shooting positions that allow the shooter various options for how to approach the stage.  When you have low round count stages like one popper and a couple paper targets from a stationary position, that kinda sucks, regardless of whether the stage is "challenging."  Some people might consider classifier stages challenging, but how many people get excited about shooting a classifier match?

[Bakerjd]

So are you saying that most of the stages are stand and shoot classifier type stages? 

[ChuckS]

18 minutes ago, Bakerjd said:

So are you saying that most of the stages are stand and shoot classifier type stages? 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/duc426v9h2xpjov/2021 Wisconsin Section Stages - Revised.pdf?dl=0

[ltdmstr]

24 minutes ago, Bakerjd said:

So are you saying that most of the stages are stand and shoot classifier type stages? 

 

Never said that.  I said 181 seems low for a LII match.  Which it is.  As for the actual stages, five of the 10 are 7, 8, 12, 15 and 16 rounds each.  For a grand total of 58 rounds.  One stage is one popper and three paper targets.  Another is two poppers and three paper targets.  And another is two poppers and five paper targets.

[Superkaratemonkeyfighter]

For me round count has everything to do with a 200$ match price tag. 
although we’re spoiled over here in Eastern pa. A monthly match with 200 round count is common. 
For approaching 200$ match fee I want 

round count and a variety of stage designs.  
a 12 stage match should have everything in it. 
technical , long shots , hosser and movement. 
but again I guess we’re spoiled over here.