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Bad Headstamps


Balakay
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All of my brass is once fired from an indoor range.  I rollsize everything.  lately, I have had a number of cases that we will not inserted into the 9 mm Dillon decapping/sizing die.  Every single piece has a head stamp of T or Norma.  What's the story with this brass? Literally no amount of force get it to go into the die. (  I'm loading on a 650)

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I have used and loaded the Norma without any problems. The old guys I shoot with (and don’t reload) had been using a lot of Norma 9mm and always gave me their brass since it once-fired.

 

 Not sure about the T unless it means “toxic” because of the primer composition. Some brass like federal and Winchester have the “NT” designation for non-toxic.

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Using some Norma stamped brass and have not had any issue with it. There is, however, a lot of crap brass out there for the last year and a half. So when ever I get back from the range I sort my brass. Some go straight to the crap bucket, and the rest is sorted into three groups (my personal choices).

Also, there is a lot of nickel or brass plated steel - so the first thing is to put a magnet through the brass to sort the steel out and then I sort out the Al cases....

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I load on a 650 and use a lot of pick up brass.  I've had a few pieces that I can't resize and I'm thinking they were 9mm major brass as most of my brass comes from my club that runs USPSA matches.  I have reloaded quite a bit of Norma, the issue has been that they (along with many other brands)won't fit flush with my EGW check gage.  All of the Norma shoots fine through my H-K VP9 and my JP PCC.

Edited by Old3GNR
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Norma makes 9mm Makarov which is larger diameter than 9mm Luger,  case mouth diameter of 9.91mm (.39") vs 9.65mm (.38) and base diameter of 9.95mm (.392") vs 9.93mm (.391").  Measure the length, Mak is 18mm (.709").  I have no idea how loose a Mak chamber is, but it's probably pretty loose so the case mouth diameter would probably be even  larger than 9.91mm.

 

 

Nolan

Edited by Nolan
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It is definitely 9mm Luger, not Mak

Cases have the same issue whether or not they are roll sized

 

I think i might have figured this out:

It might be hard to see but the flash holes in the NORMA and T head-stamp brass are tiny compared to the hole in a Federal case (the one on the left in the group of 3)

 

The smaller holes are basically the same size as the decapping pin and there is no real depression in the hole.  The primer essentially fills the hole, unlike the federal. If the decapping rod/pin is slightly, and i mean slightly off center, the pin hits the bottom of the brass and the case can't enter the die completely.

 

The primers in these cases are also harder to remove.  It took significantly more force with a hammer and punch to knock them out. Once removed and the hole was enlarged a bit from the punch, I was able to resize the brass. Good times.

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Balakay - Get you one of these De-priming dies from Will at FW Arms - I have both and LOVE the Primer Popper model because it is spring loaded. Take a few minutes to read reviews and watch a few videos on his de-priming dies. He also makes undersized pins that will allow you to de-prime this brass using your standard single stage or progressive reloader…

 

https://fwarms.com/product-tag/decapping/

 

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4 hours ago, Sigarmsp226 said:

Balakay - Get you one of these De-priming dies from Will at FW Arms - I have both and LOVE the Primer Popper model because it is spring loaded. Take a few minutes to read reviews and watch a few videos on his de-priming dies. He also makes undersized pins that will allow you to de-prime this brass using your standard single stage or progressive reloader…

 

https://fwarms.com/product-tag/decapping/

 

I can vouch for these decapping dies. I have both the original and primer popper versions and they decap the Normas without any problem. Then they get sized with my Lee Udie and Redding sizer. 
 

I used them on my 1100 to process 9mm and .223 brass.

 

B8-FDD567-8-B0-F-4704-B693-A9963-F12786-

 

 

Edited by George16
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I recently encountered problems with de-capping 9mm and pulled the problem cases to sort through at the end of my run.  4 of 5 of the reject cases carried the NORMA Headstamp.  Further analysis showed that the flash hole was too small for the decapping pin to pass through.

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I have a 30year old Rock Chucker sitting on the far side of my reloading bench where I do all types of load development, die testing (to determine its capabilities or limitations), and problems like this. Toss these to the side and knock them out with a single stage press of your choice using the primer popper die…

Edited by Sigarmsp226
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I had a bunch of Norma rifle brass and all the flash holes were small like yours also. Very good brass but for the longest time I couldn’t figure out why they were difficult to resize and the velocities were always slower than other brass. Kinda like bench rest brass. I uniformed them and velocities equaled the other brands. Don’t know if it’ll make enough difference on small pistol but you may want to check if needing to make PF. Seems to me during testing that it was around 40-80 FPS on rifle and 13-20 FPS on some 45 auto I tested. 

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3 hours ago, AHI said:

Hornady .080 recapping pin will fit. The flash hole is the smaller BR type.


Well not only did this just solve the OP’s issue - this old Mississippi guy just learned something new. 
 

Thanks AHI for this….Mark

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I should add. The Hornady .080 pin is  more likely to break . Especially when decapping crimped primers.

But I have been using them for quite some time. The RCBS headed pins will work also. But they are larger.

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I went through something similar when a defective piece of brass (flash hole) slipped into my RL1100 and caused a stoppage at Station #3.  I'm using the Redding Titanium Carbide sizing die.  Decided to contact a friend at Redding, and he sent this info in an email:

 

Quote

We’ve been hearing reports from folks that some pistol brass manufacturers have been sneaking small flash holes in their brass.  It sounds like that may have been what happened as it pinches the decap pin in the flash holes and pulls it out of the decap rod.  This makes removing the case from the shellholder difficult sometimes.  To combat this I’ve been recommending that folks try a small benchrest size decap pin.  This usually alleviates the issue.

 

Quote

It started with Speer headstamped brass and spread to other headstamps afterword though it seems intermittent (which is kind of strange).  The pins are tough little buggers so I wouldn’t worry to much about needing spares.........

 

Definitely supports the great info from AHI!

 

👍

  

 

 

Edited by HOGRIDER
sp
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16 hours ago, Sigarmsp226 said:

Balakay - Get you one of these De-priming dies from Will at FW Arms - I have both and LOVE the Primer Popper model because it is spring loaded. Take a few minutes to read reviews and watch a few videos on his de-priming dies. He also makes undersized pins that will allow you to de-prime this brass using your standard single stage or progressive reloader…

 

https://fwarms.com/product-tag/decapping/

 

I had those .08” pins installed on both of my FW Arms auto-centering decapper. So far, I haven’t broken any using them with for processing 9mm and .223 cases. Will of FW Arms actually sent me a package of .054” pins for free because the Auto centering decapper’s (on the left of my picture) threaded body wasn’t black-coated like they normally would be. 

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On 8/31/2021 at 10:24 AM, Balakay said:

All of my brass is once fired from an indoor range.  I rollsize everything.  lately, I have had a number of cases that we will not inserted into the 9 mm Dillon decapping/sizing die.  Every single piece has a head stamp of T or Norma.  What's the story with this brass? Literally no amount of force get it to go into the die. (  I'm loading on a 650)

 

I've had some of the T brass and I usually chuck it. From memory I recall the flash hole being very small to the point where it would pull a decapping rod out my die. Norma brass is very good. Don't throw that away. 

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