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Dry Fire and Matches only


Stafford

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Anyone find this is your only real training for competition? My local outdoor does not allow draw from holster, but I can shoot steel. My indoor range does allow draw from holster, but I'm shooting in the confines of a bay. Today I went to the indoor to practice draws and doubles. But the RO told me they no longer allow draws from holster, so I no longer have a place to practice draws with live fire. He pointed to a spot where someone had shot the side of the bay into the floor. So, my training for matches is basically dry fire and shooting matches. 

 

 

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The RO pointed out a hole in the wall from someone drawing from the holster? If it's like any indoor range I've seen what did the RO have to say about all the other bullets that have hit walls, floor and ceilings? They'd have to stop all shooting. Obviously you don't want to have a negligent discharge of any kind.

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Previously, I've shot there while the guy to my left was drawing from IWB at 5 pm. I backed away until he was done then went to the line to shoot. I was aware of what he was doing but I don't know if the RO at the time did or not. 

 

Today, I was planning to draw from a double belt, OWB rig at 2:30 pm, a much safer scenario than what I described above. But, can't do that at this range anymore. That's fine. I'll figure something else out to train. 

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Just now, SGT_Schultz said:

 

Too obvious

 

@Stafford do you really mean to say that nowhere around will let you draw and has no bays for members to practice?

 

How far is a club that meets both criteria?

Nearest club is 30 minutes away with a 3+ year waiting list. Other clubs are over 1 hour away and have a shorter waiting list. I'm now exploring an option to shoot at a range on private property.

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1 minute ago, Stafford said:

Nearest club is 30 minutes away with a 3+ year waiting list. Other clubs are over 1 hour away and have a shorter waiting list. I'm now exploring an option to shoot at a range on private property.

Are you on the wait list?

Edited by SGT_Schultz
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2 minutes ago, SGT_Schultz said:

Are you on the wait list?

Not yet. I'm applying to one of the clubs that is over 1 hour away. But, I'm more interested in a local private range. We'll see what happens. Maybe I should buy some land.

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3 minutes ago, Stafford said:

Not yet. I'm applying to one of the clubs that is over 1 hour away. But, I'm more interested in a local private range. We'll see what happens. Maybe I should buy some land.

Is this local club worth joining?  Does it have the facilities you need and does it allow the type of shooting you want?

 

If so, why aren't you on the list?  It should cost nothing.

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1 minute ago, SGT_Schultz said:

Is this local club worth joining?  Does it have the facilities you need and does it allow the type of shooting you want?

 

If so, why aren't you on the list?  It should cost nothing.

It has the facilities, but, I'm not sure it is worth it because of the drive. While it is 1 hour 10 minutes from home, it will be 1 hour and 40 minutes from work to get there. And that has made me hesitate. I go one way to work and would have to go back the other way to this range. 

It won't cost anything to apply and be on the waiting list, but it will cost $600 to join if accepted. If that does happen, I'll drop my membership from the indoor range where I'm currently a member. 

The local private range is a much better option if I can make it happen. 

 

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18 minutes ago, Stafford said:

It has the facilities, but, I'm not sure it is worth it because of the drive. While it is 1 hour 10 minutes from home, it will be 1 hour and 40 minutes from work to get there. And that has made me hesitate. I go one way to work and would have to go back the other way to this range. 

It won't cost anything to apply and be on the waiting list, but it will cost $600 to join if accepted. If that does happen, I'll drop my membership from the indoor range where I'm currently a member. 

The local private range is a much better option if I can make it happen. 

 

Thought you said the club with the long wait list is 30 min away?

 

What about the clubs where you shoot matches?  Why not join one of them?

Edited by SGT_Schultz
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14 hours ago, PatJones said:

Matches are not training. Find a new range. You may have to drive further than you want to, but if you want to get better at moving and shooting you have to move and shoot in practice.

yes they are. i only shoot 2 matches a month due to primer shortage.

you can get everything you need out of dryfire. the actual match puts it all together

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7 hours ago, SGT_Schultz said:

Thought you said the club with the long wait list is 30 min away?

What about the clubs where you shoot matches?  Why not join one of them?

 

The club that is 1 hour 10 minutes away is a place where I shoot evey month. I don't compete at the one that is 30 minutes away becasue they run IDPA which I don't shoot. Can't find any info about appyling there online as their website is closed to members only.

 

My best option is to strike a deal with a local private range that is used for Concealed Carry qualification. I think they give private instruction for an hourly rate. If it's not too expensive, I can set up instruction and use that time to practice. We'll see. 

Edited by Stafford
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I think fundamental techniques, to include, but not limited to draw, reload (+on the move), turns, crouch, prone, shoot on the move are best trained in a dry fire setting (to achieve repetitions to make subconscious), verified in live fire training and benchmarked in matches (to see level, what goes well and what requires more - dry fire - training). I strongly recommend to film yourself, so you're not training incorrectly. DVC

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Personally, I think dry fire is overrated.  Initially it helped in getting a good grip on the gun and a smoother draw.  After that- nothing.

 

My improvement comes from live fire training.  For draw practice I set up 15 yards from an 8" plate, set the AMG timer for variable beep and have at it.  It is important to be fast, but more important to be accurate.  I draw, fire and sometimes do a double tap to make sure I had the proper grip on the gun.  After several warm ups I'm hitting the plate 100% of the time, and I get faster and more consistent.

 

I think what made the most difference for me is I stopped focusing on the draw, and then finding the dot.  When I started focusing on the plate instead my subconscious targeting system superimposed the dot on the plate.  I've often heard this described as 'muscle memory', but I think it is training your subconscious.  Same thing with targets during the COF.

 

I also shoot SCSA.  I have nowhere to practice that.  So matches become my practice.  Improvement was slow.  I was consciously aiming; making sure the dot was on target before firing.  About four matches ago I tried trusting my subconscious more.  I turned the dot lower and focused on the plates.  It took two matches to make me decide to go 100% subconscious.  Interestingly, I don't see the dot most times (at least consciously) unless it is off the target.  I took more time off my total match times in the last two matches than I did all last season.

 

I had been told by USPSA shooting buddies I 'hunt' for the next target and my transitions were terrible.  Not consciously aiming to get all As freed my conscious to plan ahead.  My transitions improved and so did my time.  This is going to take more work, but improvement is definitely coming faster now than previously.

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I started shooting a little over a year ago. I don't have enough primers to practice with live ammo, so dryfire is all I do. 

 

If you treat it exactly as you would live fire and call your shots, I've found it to be extremely beneficial. 

 

Obviously you can't push on things that require hits to confirm efficacy, but for everything else it works. 

Edited by lroy
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3 hours ago, zzt said:

Personally, I think dry fire is overrated.  Initially it helped in getting a good grip on the gun and a smoother draw.  After that- nothing.

 

Personally, I think live-fire training is overrated. Initially it helps in learning recoil control, and how to grip the gun so the sights return quickly. Other than, everything else can be done in dry fire. This is even more true with a dot than with irons.

 

If you are able to at least shoot relatively quickly at your local ranges (.2 splits or so), I find the most important live-fire training for me is a 3" circles, shooting pairs at 7 yards (in the .2-.25 range), followed up with 3" circles at 10-11 yards, shooting 4 or 5 shots at a time with splits in the .4-.5 range.  If you can confidently and consistently hit a 3" circle at these distances, most uspsa targets are pretty easy. I rarely shoot more than 100 rounds in a live-fire practice anymore, but I dryfire daily, and shoot matches just about every week. Sometimes I mix it up and do the drills on actual partial targets (at 12-18 yards), and every other practice I do a few rounds of shooting on the move just to verify what I'm seeing in dryfire.

 

fwiw, this isn't so much my choice, but due to ammo/primer supply issues, and the fact that my wife also shoots every week, so my stash doesn't last as long.  Last summer we started shortening our live-fire training to conserve ammo, and  much to my surprise we both continued to improve, and I had some of my best results ever this spring

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29 minutes ago, motosapiens said:

Personally, I think live-fire training is overrated.

 

To each his own.  I've said what works for me.  I prefer steel targets so I don't have to paste.  Also, they are already on the range.  Just vary the range and paint every 20-30 rounds.  An 8" plate is a pretty small target at 25 yards.

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12 hours ago, zzt said:

 

I think what made the most difference for me is I stopped focusing on the draw, and then finding the dot.  When I started focusing on the plate instead my subconscious targeting system superimposed the dot on the plate.  I've often heard this described as 'muscle memory', but I think it is training your subconscious.  Same thing with targets during the COF.

I've heard a good analogy of thinking of the dot like the cursor on a computer. You don't stare at it and slowly move it to the next thing you want to click on. You snap your eyes there an your subconscious moves the cursor where it needs to be.

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  • 2 weeks later...
43 minutes ago, Bakerjd said:

As for dry fire.... only things it helps me with is draw, mag changes. 

 

Dry fire helped me tremendously to speed up my transitions, to shoot better and more aggressively on the move, shoot sooner on position entry and to start leaving a position while still engaging the last target there.

 

 

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  • 4 weeks later...
On 8/27/2021 at 1:20 PM, Stafford said:

Anyone find this is your only real training for competition? My local outdoor does not allow draw from holster, but I can shoot steel. My indoor range does allow draw from holster, but I'm shooting in the confines of a bay. Today I went to the indoor to practice draws and doubles. But the RO told me they no longer allow draws from holster, so I no longer have a place to practice draws with live fire. He pointed to a spot where someone had shot the side of the bay into the floor. So, my training for matches is basically dry fire and shooting matches. 

 

 

Thats unfortunate... Do you have any private clubs around? I am blown away at what can be gained from dryfire, it really does work although not as fun as live training lol

 

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