Frame Flex?

[Lastcat]

Picked up a well known Gun Builders Fitted XWF Slide/Frame Full Length Dust Cover (9mm) last Dec. No, not an Atlas, Brownells or Warwick. Name withheld, this isn't a "shovel poop on Company A thread".  It's a really nice fit too, love it.

 

Building my 9 Major Open Gun. I have a CK Arms that I put together with a new slide, KKM Barrel, Cheely Grip and Magwell. Ran like a top. So now I've been getting this new gun together. Cheely Standard SS Grip, EGW Parts, etc.... The KKM 5.4" Bull Barrel has not been installed yet. Will also do some milling to the slide. Flat Top, lightened rear area, Zig Racker cut and slide cuts. Very similar to the CK Arms Limited Gun. But not the Tri-Top, just the 20 Degree Slide cuts with a .187 R.020" Endmill. 

 

 

The Cheely Grip just slipped right on, nice fit. Did have to file maybe .004" off the lug for the bushing to fit (forward of the trigger guard). Nice slip fit. EGW Grip bushings fit great. Installed the EGW Lightened Trigger Kit, EGW sear spring, PT Safety. All looks good, nice fit. Added a EGW Ti strut rod and the Cheely beavertail. Did a little sanding at the bottom of the BT, just to get it to fit, looks good so far. Tested the Trigger pull at 3#, argh. That needs to be adjusted.

 

But..soon as I install the magwell and pin, the slide no longer will move back all the way, about 1 1/4" to go. Stuck at the front rails. Will not force anything at this point.

 

So, does that pressure from the 17# mainspring actually cause the frame to flex? Hate to try and lap this Slide/Frame, while the magwell is installed. It's a beautiful fit as is. I can remove the magwell with all the parts still installed and the slide works fine.

 

Have you seen this before and found a way to remedy this situation? Suggestions?

 

Thanks, LC

Edited August 24, 2021 by Lastcat

[jwhittin]

Just had a similar experience.  In my case, I had replaced the disconnector and the new one was getting caught on the trigger leaf spring (I'm using a Clark 4 leaf spring).  I suppose it could also get caught on the a 3 leaf spring or something else.  Anyway, the disconnector would not depress and allow the slide to go past.

 

Something to check.

 

Good luck.

[Lastcat]

1 minute ago, jwhittin said:

Just had a similar experience.  In my case, I had replaced the disconnector and the new one was getting caught on the trigger leaf spring (I'm using a Clark 4 leaf spring).  I suppose it could also get caught on the a 3 leaf spring or something else.  Anyway, the disconnector would not depress and allow the slide to go past.

 

Something to check.

 

Good luck.

 

Thanks Jw. Disco looks good as is the sear spring. The slide is still about 1" away from the disco and 5/8" from the rear rails. Mystery for sure. Cheers. 

[zzt]

EGW discos are long and a tad fat.  I've never been able to use one as is.  Also, you used an EGW Ti hammer strut.  There is a problem (sometimes) with them and the Cheely GS.  On two builds I've had to swap them out for different brands.  If you round the bottom and shorten so it fits better (and deeper) into the MSH cap, sometimes that cures the problem.  One or both of these things are too long.  Also the strut may have the wrong bend for a Cheely GS and the bend is rubbing on the back of the GS.  If you cannot get the strut fixed, a Cylinder & Slide or Extreme Engineering strut works 100%.  BTW, I'm not knocking EGW.  I use their Ti MSH cap and strut in my 1911 builds without issue.  It's only when I switched to Cheely 2011 e2 SS grips that I occasionally had the problem.

 

BTW, no mainspring will cause a steel frame to flex.

[Lastcat]

10 minutes ago, zzt said:

EGW discos are long and a tad fat.  I've never been able to use one as is.  Also, you used an EGW Ti hammer strut.  There is a problem (sometimes) with them and the Cheely GS.  On two builds I've had to swap them out for different brands.  If you round the bottom and shorten so it fits better (and deeper) into the MSH cap, sometimes that cures the problem.  One or both of these things are too long.  Also the strut may have the wrong bend for a Cheely GS and the bend is rubbing on the back of the GS.  If you cannot get the strut fixed, a Cylinder & Slide or Extreme Engineering strut works 100%.  BTW, I'm not knocking EGW.  I use their Ti MSH cap and strut in my 1911 builds without issue.  It's only when I switched to Cheely 2011 e2 SS grips that I occasionally had the problem.

 

BTW, no mainspring will cause a steel frame to flex.

 

Thanks zzt, that could be it. I'll try a different strut (I have 3). See if that works, cheers. 

[Lastcat]

I swapped the Trigger group (disco, Trigger, sear spring, strut) from my CK Arms, since that was the gun I used with this Cheely SS Grip first. No go, . No going back. Pulled the Magwell off and it slid back. Not getting stuck on any parts, disconnector, safety, hammer, etc... just refuses to slide into the rear set of frame rails. The reason (or let's say opinion) I am thinking that Mainspring pressure going up to the Hammer Pin is causing the frame to flex. I could be wrong. Need to figure this sucker out. 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 24, 2021 by Lastcat

[CHA-LEE]

Take the ejector out of the frame and retest the slide to frame fit for interference. In your second picture you can see some wear on the top of the ejector where it is likely jamming into the underside of the slide.

 

Most oversize ejectors need to be fit to match the dimensions of the internal cuts of the slide.

[NoSteel]

Maybe try a 15ld mainspring just to test your theory?  Really seems unlikely that the frame would flex enough to bind like that but maybe it is fitted so tight to the rails it only takes a slight amount.  The 6” limited gun I did had similar issues and I had to use a shot weighted mallet to cycle off the rear rails initially until it broke in.  Still the tightest gun I own though!

Edited August 25, 2021 by NoSteel

[Lastcat]

35 minutes ago, CHA-LEE said:

Take the ejector out of the frame and retest the slide to frame fit for interference. In your second picture you can see some wear on the top of the ejector where it is likely jamming into the underside of the slide.

 

Most oversize ejectors need to be fit to match the dimensions of the internal cuts of the slide.

 

Thanks, did that backward test, all good. That surface area under the ejector is just me with 400 grit. Ejector is all good, no interference. 

[Lastcat]

35 minutes ago, NoSteel said:

Maybe try a 15ld mainspring just to test your theory?  Really seems unlikely that the frame would flex enough to bind like that but maybe it is fitted so tight to the rails it only takes a slight amount.  The 6” limited gun I did had similar issues and I had to use a shot weighted mallet to cycle off the rear rails initially until it broke in.  Still the tightest gun I own though!

 

I swapped the old CK Arms plastic grip to this new Frame/Slide, it worked. Then used the BT from the CK Arms on all the new parts and it worked. So, going to take a close looks at the Cheely Beavertail and see what's up. I'll post what the issue was and also the fix, soon, I hope. 

[zzt]

On every Cheely e2 grip I've used I've had to fit the MSH to the GS (what you are calling the BT).  On the last one I had to remove about .010" from the MSH.  If you don't do this and force the pin in you put pressure on the GS and it jams.  Assemble the gun completely without the magwell.  If the problem still occurs, the MSH and/or GS is the problem.  If it works, your problem is with the magwell.

 

When properly fit you can push the MSH up against the GS with your thumb and slide the pin into the MSH until it hits the retainer pin.  If you take a little too much off the GS and/or MSh the GS will be pushed out by spring tension.  No big deal, but it will move in when you grip the gun.

[Bwenning]

On the Cheely E2 grip I did the holes were only out of position by a couple of thousandths or so, the pin would go in but was very tight. I used a reamer by hand with grip assembled to ream the holes inline and can now be assembled and removed easily.

[Lastcat]

8 hours ago, zzt said:

On every Cheely e2 grip I've used I've had to fit the MSH to the GS (what you are calling the BT).  On the last one I had to remove about .010" from the MSH.  If you don't do this and force the pin in you put pressure on the GS and it jams.  Assemble the gun completely without the magwell.  If the problem still occurs, the MSH and/or GS is the problem.  If it works, your problem is with the magwell.

 

When properly fit you can push the MSH up against the GS with your thumb and slide the pin into the MSH until it hits the retainer pin.  If you take a little too much off the GS and/or MSh the GS will be pushed out by spring tension.  No big deal, but it will move in when you grip the gun.

 

Yep, that's what is was. 

 

Worked on this Frame/Slide last night and took the Grip Safety (what I was calling the beavertail , I forgot the real name at the time) and made sure it fit the Frame first. Once I did that, I gained a bit of room and the Slide did move farther back.

 

Solution:  The Grip Safety was putting excessive pressure on the frame, which was causing the rear rails to flex. Once I had the GS properly fit, it released tension on the rear rails.

 

I removed all of the Ignition Kit parts (sear spring, hammer/strut, etc...) and only installed the GS and I checked to make sure the Main Spring Housing was not hitting the GS, when installed with the Magwell Pin (no tension from the Strut).

 

I was able to Dykem the MSH and test the fit until I had clearance between this part and the GS. Once I filed some clearance, there was no longer any tension from the Magwell Pin to the MSH to the GS and to the Frame. Which was causing this "Stacked" tension on the Rear Frame Rails. Fixed, all good. Thanks to everyone that replied. 

Edited August 25, 2021 by Lastcat

[AverageJoeShooting]

whats the update on this?

I want to see the finished open gun product

[Lastcat]

5 hours ago, AverageJoeShooting said:

whats the update on this?

I want to see the finished open gun product

 

Oh ya? 

 

Actually sent it off to JPL in Redmond, Wa to fit the barrel and cut a dovetail for the Zig Racker. He's busy with other work to be finished and will take a while before I see the gun again, I'm patient. As for the slide not going back, I just took a little off the Main Spring Housing and it fit, all good. I'll post a pic once it's finished, prolly in Jan or Feb. 

[Lastcat]

Finally got things sorted out. Had the barrel fitted and coated. I milled the slide cuts on my Mathews PM25 Mill, fitted all parts, made the Trigger and Gun Kote in Satin Black and Chrome Black (grip). Had a chance to shoot it today, about 400 rounds. Working good, a few bugs to work out, but looking good. Got all my fingers and no blood. That first shot on a new Gun, argh. Hold ya breathe go for it. Now for some trigger time and practice.

 

1. Brazo XWF Fitted Frame/Slide
2. KKM 5.4" Bull Barrel
3. Cheely E2 Grip and Magwell
4. Sig Romeo 3XL
5. Tevo Mount
6. Zig Racker
7. Nitro Fin
8. EGW Ign Kit
9. Bin. Eng. Comp

 

 

Anyways, here's the obligatory pics. Peace.