Coated bullets with a narrow ogive?

[datderecelltech]

Hi 

 

Looking for coated bullets with a narrow ogvie, which mimic bullet profiles likbe Berry's or most FMJ to load for my CZ. 

 

Any suggestions? 

[Cuz]

18 minutes ago, datderecelltech said:

Hi 

 

Looking for coated bullets with a narrow ogvie, which mimic bullet profiles likbe Berry's or most FMJ to load for my CZ. 

 

Any suggestions? 

check out Bayou Bullets. Their 9mm 124gr RN have a pretty slim profile. 

[Furrly]

In my experience this are the best for cz 

 

https://thebluebullets.com/product-category/9mm-38-super-355/125-gr-truncated-cone/

[radny97]

Brazos 124 gr have a narrow ogive and feed perfectly in my CZs 

[IHAVEGAS]

https://www.snscasting.com/new-9mm-147-grain-flat-point-red-coated-500ct/

 

Have put 20,000 or so of these through cz's, a weird thing is they always tell you to load short but for me to get reliable feeding I had to load to about 1.15 - shorter would give me just enough FTF issues not to trust them at a match. 

[Jim Watson]

I am loading those 124 gr "shouldered roundnose" from Bayou and Brazos with good feeding in all guns. 

(Same mould, my last purchase was Brazos because Bayou was so far behind.)

[datderecelltech]

Thank you all. If I do not have to adjust my current oal of 1.15 that would be great!

[Guy Neill]

Please educate me.  What does "narrow ogive" mean?

 

I'm good with ogive, and can picture a long ogive or short ogive, but narrow ogive escapes me.

 

Thanks.

 

 

[Dirty_J]

Why no truncated cone/conical? That’s a typical solution to the short CZ barrels.

 

I’ve had great success with the 125gr BBI and the 127gr from Brass Monkey. 

[AzDanMan]

I load DG Bullets 125g CN at 1.125 for my Shadow 2. 

[HOGRIDER]

8 hours ago, datderecelltech said:

Hi 

 

Looking for coated bullets with a narrow ogvie, which mimic bullet profiles likbe Berry's or most FMJ to load for my CZ. 

 

Any suggestions? 

After purchasing my first CZ, an S2 Orange, I quickly had to adapt from loading 9mm at 1.142"-1.150" down to MUCH Shorter OALs!  Did a lot of "plunk" testing between 135g and 147g coated lead along with 125g and 147g JHPs.

 

From the examples I had (Bayou, Acme, Blue, and Zero) I found that the 147g Coated flat points and the 147g JHPs allowed me a longer OAL vs the smaller weights.  

 

IMO, whatever bullet weight and profile you may be was considering, I would definitely call the manufacturer and ask them how their particular profiles work in CZ (short) chambers!

 

Attached is a pic for example:  My current match load, the Zero 147g JHP on the left, easily clears at 1.125".  And would go out to 1.145" if needed. 

The middle Zero 125 JHP Conical AND the right side Zero 125 JHP both have to be loaded max 1.080" to give me my desired .015" clearance.

 

So, particular ogive profiles definitely play a huge part in chambering successfully in our CZs!

 

Good luck!

[NETim]

I had to back my Bayou, Acme and DG coated 124's down to 1.07" to pass the "plunk" test on the Apex barrels I installed on my M&P's.  I had been running at 1.15" with the OEM barrels.   My Glocks?  They don't care.   I think they d chamber up corn cobs if I asked them to.  

Edited August 17, 2021 by NETim

[Lightj75]

I use the 147 gr summit city bullets Flat points I've found I can load them longer than most coated projectiles in my CZ SP01 usually to around an OAL of 1.135-1.14. The blue bullets 147gr RN comes close though I can get them to pass the plunk test at 1.13 in the same gun. Summit City has a 5% discount (Discord5) and free shipping so I usually get them just to save a little money. 

[Cuz]

3 hours ago, HOGRIDER said:

After purchasing my first CZ, an S2 Orange, I quickly had to adapt from loading 9mm at 1.142"-1.150" down to MUCH Shorter OALs!  Did a lot of "plunk" testing between 135g and 147g coated lead along with 125g and 147g JHPs.

 

From the examples I had (Bayou, Acme, Blue, and Zero) I found that the 147g Coated flat points and the 147g JHPs allowed me a longer OAL vs the smaller weights.  

 

IMO, whatever bullet weight and profile you may be was considering, I would definitely call the manufacturer and ask them how their particular profiles work in CZ (short) chambers!

 

Attached is a pic for example:  My current match load, the Zero 147g JHP on the left, easily clears at 1.125".  And would go out to 1.145" if needed. 

The middle Zero 125 JHP Conical AND the right side Zero 125 JHP both have to be loaded max 1.080" to give me my desired .015" clearance.

 

So, particular ogive profiles definitely play a huge part in chambering successfully in our CZs!

 

Good luck!

Hogrider,

thanks for the info. You know, I’ve recently gotten myself wrapped around the axle regarding short OALs. I’ve always loaded RN to 1.140” and considered everything else as “short”. 
Now that I switched to JHP Bullets, and Goliath base pads for my PCC, I had to shorten to under 1.125 to fit the Goliath. Somehow I ended up at 1.09 which fed reliably in everything and worked fine, but I couldn’t escape the feeling that my loads were “too short”.   So tonight I dug out my 2 reloading manuals, the newest being 15 years old, and the “recommended” OAL for 115 and 125gr jhp is 1.075”.  The general consensus among competition shooters has always sort of been to load long for reliability, until the CZs became so popular, and now everyone is scrambling to load “short”. In reality, they aren’t really loading very short at all, they are merely loading just barely shorter than what has been a recommended OAL for many years.  I feel a little better about my OAL now. 
 

[HOGRIDER]

29 minutes ago, Cuz said:

Hogrider,

thanks for the info. You know, I’ve recently gotten myself wrapped around the axle regarding short OALs. I’ve always loaded RN to 1.140” and considered everything else as “short”. 
Now that I switched to JHP Bullets, and Goliath base pads for my PCC, I had to shorten to under 1.125 to fit the Goliath. Somehow I ended up at 1.09 which fed reliably in everything and worked fine, but I couldn’t escape the feeling that my loads were “too short”.   So tonight I dug out my 2 reloading manuals, the newest being 15 years old, and the “recommended” OAL for 115 and 125gr jhp is 1.075”.  The general consensus among competition shooters has always sort of been to load long for reliability, until the CZs became so popular, and now everyone is scrambling to load “short”. In reality, they aren’t really loading very short at all, they are merely loading just barely shorter than what has been a recommended OAL for many years.  I feel a little better about my OAL now. 
 

Cuz:

Glad I could help! 

 

When I started down this 9mm "rabbit hole", it was shooting GSSF with Gen 3/4 Glock G17 and G34s.  And as you know, they had very long chambers that were basically restricted by mag length.  Then I switched to the 1911/2011 platform and for the most part, it was not uncommon to load ~1.140-1.150 and still have plenty of cushion for oal variations.

 

Then, after acquiring the CZ and experiencing some OALs that just seemed way too short, I too decided to pull out some manuals; and also measure the OALs of several self defense and match, factory loads I had acquired over the years.  And like you, I was shocked to find that 1.10" plus some a bit longer and some a bit shorter was just not that unusual!  Since I primarily use VihtaVuori powders, a quick scan of their current 9mm reload data shows tested OALs from 1.035" to 1.157"!  And this is shared in many of my other reloading manuals!

 

So, I feel confident your 1.09" OAL for the PCC is well within accepted specifications!

 

Load on!

 

[datderecelltech]

18 hours ago, Guy Neill said:

Please educate me.  What does "narrow ogive" mean?

 

I'm good with ogive, and can picture a long ogive or short ogive, but narrow ogive escapes me.

 

Thanks.

 

 

I probably used the wrong terminology. I meant to say bullets with a profile similar to fmj/plated bullets (pointier) vs more dome shaped bullets like a lot of coated bullets

[Dirty_J]

5 minutes ago, datderecelltech said:

I probably used the wrong terminology. I meant to say bullets with a profile similar to fmj/plated bullets (pointier) vs more dome shaped bullets like a lot of coated bullets

You used the proper terminology. 
 

You need something slim near the nose to avoid touching the rifling. 
 

Most folks look to truncated cone/conical bullets in this scenario. 

[datderecelltech]

19 hours ago, Dirty_J said:

Why no truncated cone/conical? That’s a typical solution to the short CZ barrels.

 

I’ve had great success with the 125gr BBI and the 127gr from Brass Monkey. 

Tbh it’s mostly because I am used to shooting rn bullets. I have a setup that worked with copper plated. I like berrys. But it’s getting expensive so I would like to look for alternatives with still minimal exposure to lead.

 

[Dirty_J]

5 minutes ago, datderecelltech said:

Tbh it’s mostly because I am used to shooting rn bullets. I have a setup that worked with copper plated. I like berrys. But it’s getting expensive so I would like to look for alternatives with still minimal exposure to lead.

 

Same boat. I’ve used conical coated in my handguns for years…. But have always gone to RN plated (Berrys or RMR) for my PCC. But they are damn expensive comparatively.. so I’ve been exploring RN coated for that task as well. 
 

The Brass Monkey has worked great for me - though admittedly I do load short (1.10”) for the PCC to avoid any magazine extension woes. 

[Guy Neill]

Thanks.

 

I'm not trying say it's right or wrong.  But then the term "heads", meaning bullets, surprised and confused me the first time I encountered it.

 

The narrow ogive sounds, in my terms as a long ogive with small meplat.

 

One of the reasons t be here - to learn things,.

 

 

[NOSHMJ]

Blues changed their profile to where its pointier instead of rounder at the tip of the bullet.  Maybe give them a look.

Edited August 20, 2021 by NOSHMJ

[HOGRIDER]

13 hours ago, NOSHMJ said:

Blues changed their profile to where its pointier instead of rounder at the tip of the bullet.  Maybe give them a look.

A while back, I ordered some samples of Blue Bullet's 147g coated as they were the #1 reloaded bullet in the 2020 USPSA Equipment Survey!  After speaking to a rep there, he sent their new RN profile along with their regular flat point.

 

To give me a .015" cushion in OAL for the S2 Orange, I ended up with max 1.110" on the new round point and 1.120" on the standard flat nose.  Have not worked on any test ladders at this point.  Pic for reference, and of course YMMV...........

[Dirty_J]

32 minutes ago, HOGRIDER said:

A while back, I ordered some samples of Blue Bullet's 147g coated as they were the #1 reloaded bullet in the 2020 USPSA Equipment Survey!  After speaking to a rep there, he sent their new RN profile along with their regular flat point.

 

To give me a .015" cushion in OAL for the S2 Orange, I ended up with max 1.110" on the new round point and 1.120" on the standard flat nose.  Have not worked on any test ladders at this point.  Pic for reference, and of course YMMV...........

That’s a 147 RN from them??

[HOGRIDER]

59 minutes ago, Dirty_J said:

That’s a 147 RN from them??

Yes!  New RN profile on the left! 

 

I have not tried either in the S2O, but my initial impression is I don't really care for the new profile..........

 

 

[Shorty38super]

I had this exact problem with a few of my guns so I found the new profile bullet from Hoosier Bullets check them out they work great.