Steel Challenge - Would SCSA Benefit From Adding Two New Official Stages - POLL

[motosapiens]

^^ this is also a good point, and one I have made before. 4 seconds seems excessive.  i'm in favor of a 3-second penalty for shooting OL from one box for people that really can't safely do the movement.  It takes me right around 2 seconds from shot to shot.

[Hoops]

8 minutes ago, motosapiens said:

 

Don't want this to get lost in all the other shenanigans, but to me, the above suggestion seems like a good idea, and I think you have made a reasonable case for it. Our range is fortunate enough to have 7 bays that we can put either of the two big stages in, but not everyone planned so well.

 

On the one hand, one of the things that people (including me) like about steel is there is a set standard, so it's a continuing goal to beat my total time for either the whole 8-stage group, for for the 2 separate 4-stage groups the way our club always shoots them on mon-wed. On the other hand, one of the things that people (including me) *don't* like about steel is that it's always the same old stages. Kind of a conundrum. That's why I shoot more USPSA, lol.

You summed up this topic nicely.  One or two additional official stages, in my opinion and the reason for this poll, would add a new outlook for the SC and I believe would encourage more shooters.  When I was able to shoot USPSA, it was 1 classifier then 5 free form stages that changes from match to match.  

 

Let's give some more options to SC and still maintain it's principles of speed and accuracy.  

[Hoops]

If you are reading this, please vote.  The more votes we have in this poll will give some basis for approaching SCSA.org on the subject.  Poll closes 9/15/21 thereabouts.  

 

By the way........9-11-21 is Saturday.  Never Forget.

[zzt]

I'll address a couple of points moto and hoops just made.

 

First, the notion that physical speed doesn't count for much is plain wrong.  I'll be 74 in a couple months.  I can keep up with my 37 something shooting buddies on a technical course.  When I have to run 25 yards between firing ports, I cannot.

 

4 second OL penalty.  This was hotly debated prior to adoption. 2, 3 and 4 second penalties were considered.  I RO SCSA and determined the majority of OL shooters took more than 3 seconds to move and shoot.  I used the review function to see the splits.  I voted for 4.  It is supposed to be a penalty, not a help.  That being said, shooters seem to be getting faster, so I'd be okay with going to 3.

[Hoops]

20 minutes ago, zzt said:

I'll address a couple of points moto and hoops just made.

 

First, the notion that physical speed doesn't count for much is plain wrong.  I'll be 74 in a couple months.  I can keep up with my 37 something shooting buddies on a technical course.  When I have to run 25 yards between firing ports, I cannot.

 

4 second OL penalty.  This was hotly debated prior to adoption. 2, 3 and 4 second penalties were considered.  I RO SCSA and determined the majority of OL shooters took more than 3 seconds to move and shoot.  I used the review function to see the splits.  I voted for 4.  It is supposed to be a penalty, not a help.  That being said, shooters seem to be getting faster, so I'd be okay with going to 3.

There have been a lot of comments regarding OL in this post.....one being the size and many ranges can't physically shoot it (SO as well).  

 

With only 7,800 SCSA members in the entire U.S. (per USPSA board report for 2020), I believe one or two more official stages would be a positive change to encourage more new shooters and to give more ranges the ability to shoot more official stages at their matches.  But.....not changing the principle of the sport which is 5 strategicly placed targets with 5 strings with emphais on speed and accuracy.  Leave WSS as is for year or two as an option.  

 

 

[motosapiens]

38 minutes ago, zzt said:

First, the notion that physical speed doesn't count for much is plain wrong.  I'll be 74 in a couple months.  I can keep up with my 37 something shooting buddies on a technical course.  When I have to run 25 yards between firing ports, I cannot.

 

Your argument is contrived. there are very very very few places where you have to run 25 yards between firing positions. Even 10 yards is an unusually long movement anywhere except A3. In the overwhelming majority of USPSA stages (and also outer limits) foot speed for non-crippled people is not an issue, even tho some lazy people like to use it as an excuse.

[zzt]

1 hour ago, motosapiens said:

Your argument is contrived. there are very very very few places where you have to run 25 yards between firing positions.

 

At least once in every match at each of two clubs.  Sometimes it is longer.   They like to make use of their 50 and 75 yard bays.  Last match in the long bay you engaged one target from the starting box and ran 35 yards to the forward shooting area to engage the rest.  I was ROing and I was worn out after running four shooters.

[Racinready300ex]

53 minutes ago, zzt said:

 

At least once in every match at each of two clubs.  Sometimes it is longer.   They like to make use of their 50 and 75 yard bays.  Last match in the long bay you engaged one target from the starting box and ran 35 yards to the forward shooting area to engage the rest.  I was ROing and I was worn out after running four shooters.

 

That is not something I see in this area at all. Around here (east coast) is more in line with what moto described. 10 yards of running with out firing a shot is a long run. Most stages you can't even run full speed, you explode out for 2 steps and you need to be on the breaks with the gun up ready to shoot. 

 

What club do you shoot at? You're a little north of me. I shoot ESPS, AAFG, Sanners, the most. I've also been up to LPRG and Ontelanne and I've probably done a 50 yard run once at Area 8 a few years ago and that stage you had the option to stay back and shoot it. There are a few clubs up in the PA area I haven't been to yet, and I don't venture into jersey at all.

[zzt]

LPRGC always has long courses in bays 1 and 5.  NHRPC often has a long run stage in bay 5.  There is always a lot of movement in the new bays 6, 7 and 8.  They have gone to more complicated, technical stages lately because of reduced round count.  Matches now are 105-120 rounds.

 

Every now and then one of the jackrabbits designs a stage and you are going to run.  The 35 yard run I mentioned was at NHRPC.  At LPRGC bay 5 box A was at the far left rear.  You shot one target 40 yards away and ran to the other side of the COF (30 yards), and then ran along a 40 yard L shooting targets as you went.  You only had to slow down in two spots.

 

BTW, I wasn't complaining about having to run.  I was taking issue with the statement that foot speed didn't count for much.  Taking a extra 10 seconds because you are a slow runner on a long stage puts you well down in the standings.

Edited September 9, 2021 by zzt

[Hoops]

This poll ends tomorrow, 9/15/2021 at 9:00 pm Central Time.

 

Based on activity, it appears this post may have run it's course.

 

I was hoping that the total number of votes would reach 100 but as of today, the number is 64.  Perhaps this will increase during the final hour before the poll closes.