Got my apex hammer, a couple questions on fitting

[Guitarmageddon]

First of all, big thanks to @Toolguy and @pskys2 for all of the helpful input and setting me on the right path in my "wolf main spring" thread from last week.

 

I have received the apex hammer and I've dropped it in the gun. Ive also dropped in the extended firing pin (.508 in length, a bit longer than the stock which was about .498) It actually seems to fit pretty darn good out of the box. A couple questions on potentially fitting it though. 

 

I *think* a time or two I induced a very minor hitch out of it, but cant quite tell for sure. Fitting one of these and testing is pretty new to me still. However, when it comes to removing the pin, which side do I pound in from?

 

Would I pound DOWN/IN from this perspective, or would I be tapping it from the other side TOWARDS the camera/sideplate?



And just to be very clear in the face that I would stone, it would be ONLY the one with the arrow? The other face can just take some flitz polish and be good to go, right?

 

I tried my 1/16th punch from both sides but didnt get too aggressive with it. I wasn't sure if I had to compress the spring in or let it extend out when driving out the pin as well. 

Thanks to everyone for chiming in and offering assistance, appreciate all your help big time! Uncharted waters for me, but Ive wanted to do this tuneup ever since I bought the gun close to 10 years ago!

Man she looks mean now

Edited August 5, 2021 by Guitarmageddon

[Cherokeewind]

I use a pair of tweezers to grasp the firing pin retainer pin and just lift it out, watch the firing pin, it might be pushed out of it's channel by the firing pin spring.

 

I suppose I misunderstood your question, seemed you were asking about the firing pin but actually were asking about the hammer...........

Edited August 5, 2021 by Cherokeewind
added info.

[Kurusty]

Doesn’t matter which side you drive the pin out, but I don’t recommend pushing it all of the way, just enough to remove the sear. It looks like you’ve installed it, is it not smooth enough?

[Guitarmageddon]

6 minutes ago, Kurusty said:

Doesn’t matter which side you drive the pin out, but I don’t recommend pushing it all of the way, just enough to remove the sear. It looks like you’ve installed it, is it not smooth enough?

I think I felt it hitch a time or two, but maybe thats just me? I think its pretty damn smooth, partly complementing the action thats already got about 7000 rounds in it, so this hammer is the new kid of the bunch. I was thinking of giving a few passes on the stone for good measure. or should I not? It seems to cycle fully and fine though.

[Guitarmageddon]

11 minutes ago, Cherokeewind said:

I use a pair of tweezers to grasp the firing pin retainer pin and just lift it out, watch the firing pin, it might be pushed out of it's channel by the firing pin spring.

 

I suppose I misunderstood your question, seemed you were asking about the firing pin but actually were asking about the hammer...........

Yep pin went in no issues at all. easy day

[Kurusty]

3 minutes ago, Guitarmageddon said:

I think I felt it hitch a time or two, but maybe thats just me? I think its pretty damn smooth, partly complementing the action thats already got about 7000 rounds in it, so this hammer is the new kid of the bunch. I was thinking of giving a few passes on the stone for good measure. or should I not? It seems to cycle fully and fine though.

If the trigger pull is constant and smooth you should be good. The last one that I did, I stoned it without removing the sear, but I only had to take a couple of passes. 

[Guitarmageddon]

1 minute ago, Kurusty said:

If the trigger pull is constant and smooth you should be good. The last one that I did, I stoned it without removing the sear, but I only had to take a couple of passes. 

Interesting. how did you hit that bottom edge without removing it? I have a few thin stones of varying grit but they wouldn't be able to fit in there.

[Kurusty]

I can’t tell you the thickness of the top of my head, but it’sa super fine that I’ve had for years. Basically, I’m to lazy to go into the garage, AKA furnace.

[AzShooter]

It appears that you now have everything working the way it should.  What did you finally end up having as a DA trigger pull?

 

I guess I've been lucky with Apex hammers.  All of mine were just drop in and required no fitting. My average DA pull was 4.5 pounds.  Yes, I needed to shoot firmly seated Federal primers but once I got use to double seating the primers on my Dillon 650 I had no ignition problems. 

 

Now the fun part starts.  Shoot to your heart's content.  Find out what bullet works best for you.  I molded my own 185 grain RNL bullets with a special mold I had made from LBJ Technologies.  It was easy to shoot 1 inch groups at 25 yards from resting my hands on sandbags.  

[Guitarmageddon]

7 minutes ago, AzShooter said:

It appears that you now have everything working the way it should.  What did you finally end up having as a DA trigger pull?

 

I guess I've been lucky with Apex hammers.  All of mine were just drop in and required no fitting. My average DA pull was 4.5 pounds.  Yes, I needed to shoot firmly seated Federal primers but once I got use to double seating the primers on my Dillon 650 I had no ignition problems. 

 

Now the fun part starts.  Shoot to your heart's content.  Find out what bullet works best for you.  I molded my own 185 grain RNL bullets with a special mold I had made from LBJ Technologies.  It was easy to shoot 1 inch groups at 25 yards from resting my hands on sandbags.  

Wow 185 grain is pretty heavy for 38. I have settled on 147 blue bullets RN over federal primers with 4.4gr n32c. Love this load. 

 

So now I think im fiddling with what rebound spring suits me, and I dont know what I dont know.... so far after stock, Ive gone to the 14lb wolf, to the 13lb wolf, i tried a 12lb wolf tonight but that was no dice (massive short stroking), and now Im feeling out the included apex "competition" hammer. I may actually go back to the 14lb wolf. Im not sure what weight the included apex competition rebound is. 

 

What metric do you guys use to judge your liking of a rebound spring? Is it merely if you tend to short stroke or not? 
 

So far Ive tweaked it back to 7lbs but Im loading 100 rounds tomorrow for my usual "thursday night steel" and will see how low she goes. Then once I find a good spot, I will loctite my set screw. Possibly after that, I may file down my extra factory strain screw to an exacting length for the required pull and put that one in, 

Edited August 5, 2021 by Guitarmageddon

[AzShooter]

I get it as low as I can without out running the trigger. I use an 11 pound rebound spring and I set mine very light but to get use to it I dry fired about 1000 rounds a night until I had no problems.  If you don't want to put in that kind of effort you can probably get away with the 13 pound Wolf and 7 pound trigger.  You're will be more reliable with the the heavier trigger.

[Toolguy]

For the Loctite, you can't just put some on the outside and hope it will wick in. They do have a green wicking one, but it's high strength and takes a lot of heat to break loose. For the purple low strength, #222, or the blue medium strength, #242, you need to coat the male & female threads with it before installation, install, and clean off the excess. A Q-tip works well for getting in to clean small spaces.

 

Congrats for getting to this point! You will enjoy shooting a lot more from here on out!

Edited August 5, 2021 by Toolguy

[pskys2]

I've never removed the pin on the DA Sear.  The stone I have will just fit in and I use a screw driver to hold the DA Sear out to its full travel.

 

I like to run a couple of strokes on the outside face of the DA Sear just to smooth it out in my own mind, it's usually not necessary.

 

Yes the bottom part of the DA Sear is what you fit.

BUT if it slips in and the trigger & hammer go through their full stroke it may be fine as is.  Again I like to run a very fine 1200 grit stone on it just to smooth it out.

But dry fire does the same thing.

[pskys2]

As for the weight you need for the rebound, it's all what you feel.

 

I go as light as I can without 1) feeling a hesitation or hitch in the reset and 2) doesn't short stroke on max speed dry fire runs.

[Guitarmageddon]

51 minutes ago, Toolguy said:

For the Loctite, you can't just put some on the outside and hope it will wick in. They do have a green wicking one, but it's high strength and takes a lot of heat to break loose. For the purple low strength, #222, or the blue medium strength, #242, you need to coat the male & female threads with it before installation, install, and clean off the excess. A Q-tip works well for getting in to clean small spaces.

 

Congrats for getting to this point! You will enjoy shooting a lot more from here on out!

Yes I did some blue loctite when I changed out the strain screw for the set screw, but I've done so much fiddling with it that i definitely need to generously coat it once I finalize my setup.

 

 

33 minutes ago, pskys2 said:

As for the weight you need for the rebound, it's all what you feel.

 

I go as light as I can without 1) feeling a hesitation or hitch in the reset and 2) doesn't short stroke on max speed dry fire runs.

Yea I'm still feeling this one out. I go to one then revert back to a lighter spring, then the next day go heavier haha. I just need to commit to one for a few weeks so I really know how it behaves.

[Sniperboy]

I went down this road as well recently (first time taking a revo apart) and it was quite the learning experience.  I polished the bottom of the sear (removed it first, very little effort) and the top of the trigger with 1000 and 2000 grit sandpaper and finished off with flitz. 

I used the midway video to confirm which locations to polish.  I did NOT touch the single action surface.

 

I also polished the surface under the hammer (where the "C" part of the back of the trigger contacts the hammer during the pull) a little bit without touching the single action surface.

Dunno if it made a difference since the Apex was pretty slick as is, but it sure was a great placebo and something to do while getting used to the new platform.

 

At this point I will shoot it a bit to see if any surfaces are rubbing and polish more there but that is for a later day and a 6 pack in the future.

 

 

 

Edited August 5, 2021 by Sniperboy

[Guitarmageddon]

2 hours ago, Sniperboy said:

I went down this road as well recently (first time taking a revo apart) and it was quite the learning experience.  I polished the bottom of the sear (removed it first, very little effort) and the top of the trigger with 1000 and 2000 grit sandpaper and finished off with flitz. 

I used the midway video to confirm which locations to polish.  I did NOT touch the single action surface.

 

I also polished the surface under the hammer (where the "C" part of the back of the trigger contacts the hammer during the pull) a little bit without touching the single action surface.

Dunno if it made a difference since the Apex was pretty slick as is, but it sure was a great placebo and something to do while getting used to the new platform.

 

At this point I will shoot it a bit to see if any surfaces are rubbing and polish more there but that is for a later day and a 6 pack in the future.

 

 

 

What gun did you put the apex in? What is your trigger pull down to now?

 

Range was closed today for some improvements so I'll have to wait to test out my improvements until Saturday after our bullseye match.

[Sniperboy]

I put it on a 929 and my trigger pull is 6lb 8oz. if I recall correctly.  (Stock pull was 10.5 lbs)

I loosened the strain screw until it did not fire my fed primed reloads and screwed in half a turn in.

Edited August 5, 2021 by Sniperboy

[Guitarmageddon]

41 minutes ago, Sniperboy said:

I put it on a 929 and my trigger pull is 6lb 8oz. if I recall correctly.  (Stock pull was 10.5 lbs)

I loosened the strain screw until it did not fire my fed primed reloads and screwed in half a turn in.

Ive got mine at 6lb 3oz to 6lb 8oz at the moment so we shall see how it goes. Did you run an extended pin? Assuming so since it came with the apex kit. 

[Sniperboy]

yes I used the Apex extended pin included in the kit.  I think it can only get better over time, after a few thousand rounds I can open up the works and see any wear marks and polish more as needed if I get bored.

You can also look for a weaker trigger return spring as well.

Edited August 5, 2021 by Sniperboy