apetrulis01 Posted July 13, 2021 Share Posted July 13, 2021 Is the Staccato P 4.4 inch barreled gun legal for ESP? Thanks, Adam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Watson Posted August 15, 2021 Share Posted August 15, 2021 I think it will fit The Box. Then you get into the semantics. It has a "bull" barrel which is not addressed in the rules although "cone" and "heavy" barrels longer than 4.25" are not allowed. If you have one, take it and shoot it. If you don't, I would not buy one without a clarification from HQ. That is one of those silly rules that people with nothing better to do make fun of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apetrulis01 Posted August 15, 2021 Author Share Posted August 15, 2021 2 hours ago, Jim Watson said: I think it will fit The Box. Then you get into the semantics. It has a "bull" barrel which is not addressed in the rules although "cone" and "heavy" barrels longer than 4.25" are not allowed. If you have one, take it and shoot it. If you don't, I would not buy one without a clarification from HQ. That is one of those silly rules that people with nothing better to do make fun of. Two different state coordinators were emails, 1 said it was legal, the other said no. I guess I have to email HQ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RangerTrace Posted August 15, 2021 Share Posted August 15, 2021 I'd say no. It is a bull barrel and it's longer than 4.25". At a fairly recent State IDPA match, they checked my 4.15" gun just to make sure I didn't have a newer pistol. Like many IDPA rules, it really is lame, but oh well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apetrulis01 Posted August 15, 2021 Author Share Posted August 15, 2021 5 minutes ago, RangerTrace said: I'd say no. It is a bull barrel and it's longer than 4.25". At a fairly recent State IDPA match, they checked my 4.15" gun just to make sure I didn't have a newer pistol. Like many IDPA rules, it really is lame, but oh well. Wellllll crap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Watson Posted August 15, 2021 Share Posted August 15, 2021 The word "bull" does not appear in the rule book. What I said about semantics, is a "heavy barrel" or a "cone barrel" the same as a "bull barrel?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apetrulis01 Posted August 16, 2021 Author Share Posted August 16, 2021 So I emailed IDPA HQ. I stated two different coordinators give two different opinions about the Staccato P. They emailed back stating they are sending the question to my coordinator because they know the rules better.............wellllll thanks HQ that didn't help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Watson Posted August 16, 2021 Share Posted August 16, 2021 That's a shame. I didn't always agree with Robert Ray, but at least he would answer the question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apetrulis01 Posted August 17, 2021 Author Share Posted August 17, 2021 My Area Coordinator says the Staccato P is legal for ESP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael303 Posted August 17, 2021 Share Posted August 17, 2021 2 hours ago, apetrulis01 said: My Area Coordinator says the Staccato P is legal for ESP. Did your coordinator clarify why they believe it's not illegal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apetrulis01 Posted August 17, 2021 Author Share Posted August 17, 2021 29 minutes ago, Michael303 said: Did your coordinator clarify why they believe it's not illegal? No. I just got an email back that said the staccato P is legal for ESP. That is it. I also printed that out to take to matches around Florida.......lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Watson Posted August 17, 2021 Share Posted August 17, 2021 Great. When you get an answer you like, quit asking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RangerTrace Posted August 17, 2021 Share Posted August 17, 2021 Thats all fine and good till they measure the length of the barrel. He's exactly right, the Staccato P is legal for ESP, as long as it's a 2019 model. If they/he stick with than answer, Atlas has several 4.5ish bull barrels guns that will be legal......which I doubt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apetrulis01 Posted August 17, 2021 Author Share Posted August 17, 2021 52 minutes ago, RangerTrace said: Thats all fine and good till they measure the length of the barrel. He's exactly right, the Staccato P is legal for ESP, as long as it's a 2019 model. If they/he stick with than answer, Atlas has several 4.5ish bull barrels guns that will be legal......which I doubt. Well I guess the Staccato P is legal for ESP in Florida. Seems like HQ needs to step in because different states now have different ruings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael303 Posted September 3, 2021 Share Posted September 3, 2021 On 8/17/2021 at 11:02 AM, Jim Watson said: Great. When you get an answer you like, quit asking. I saw your post on 1911Addicts regarding a recent IDPA AC conference call where it was agreed that if a pistol makes weight and fits the box it's good to go. I was going to reach out to my AC about this but I'm curous which AC you spoke with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael303 Posted September 3, 2021 Share Posted September 3, 2021 Just to follow up on this, my area coordinator replied to my message quickly and confirmed the longer Staccato P and effectively all longer bull, heavy, cone barrels are good to go. Considering the terms heavy and cone aren't defined, this makes the most sense. I asked my AC: I came across a thread on a message board where someone said "it was agreed that if a pistol makes weight and fits The Box, it will be allowed" on a recent area coordinator conference call, effectively making the 4.4" Staccato P and other 1911s with bull barrels longer than 4.25" legal. Do you know anything about this? He replied: That is the direction we were given in a recent AC call. This doesn't mean ported guns or enlarged safeties will be allowed however. The ruling was in reference to the cone vs bull barrel reference. It would be great if they actually updated the rule book but as you know there is a freeze on any rule book changes this year. We are trying to get the word out to the MDs. If you run across any MD who questions it, have them contact me, if they are in my area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Watson Posted September 3, 2021 Share Posted September 3, 2021 (edited) 4 hours ago, Michael303 said: I'm curous which AC you spoke with. Nicky Carter, Mississippi etc. I am in Alabama but my official AC is a lot farther away, so I always ask Nicky when shooting at his place near Saltillo MS. I think this is a sensible approach and I hope the official rules will reflect it when they get around to a new edition. It should also apply to the other automatic divisions EXCEPT SSP. I would hate for SSP to end up like USPSA Production with only a nodding resemblance to stock guns. Edited September 3, 2021 by Jim Watson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluemooncricket Posted October 9, 2021 Share Posted October 9, 2021 So can anyone one else confirm a barrel rule change for ESP? I tried sending my coordinator an email but received no response. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matteekay Posted October 10, 2021 Share Posted October 10, 2021 I think the rules aren't actually updated and it's a gentlemen's agreement at the moment (for lack of a better term). I'm also curious as I have a fair amount of Grand Power stuff floating around and the X-Calibur was previously not legal due to the 5" cone-ish barrel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RangerTrace Posted October 10, 2021 Share Posted October 10, 2021 Too bad Atlas when to the trouble of making some 4.6" bushing barreled guns!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Watson Posted October 11, 2021 Share Posted October 11, 2021 On 10/9/2021 at 9:36 PM, matteekay said: I think the rules aren't actually updated and it's a gentlemen's agreement at the moment (for lack of a better term). I'm also curious as I have a fair amount of Grand Power stuff floating around and the X-Calibur was previously not legal due to the 5" cone-ish barrel. I think "gentlemen's agreement" is a good term for it. Rev up your Grand Power before they change their minds. The Brock's Gap IDPA had a family group Saturday; Dad, Junior, and Sub-Junior, a heartwarming sight. But they may have been too lax on equipment, these guys were all fitted out in very nice USPSA Limited rigs with 2011s, lots of bucks on sporting goods for the boys. I guess the MD and CSO thought it worth the dispensation to get them to shoot. On 10/10/2021 at 9:20 AM, RangerTrace said: Too bad Atlas when to the trouble of making some 4.6" bushing barreled guns!! Why "too bad?" Good quality guns, legit if they go back to black letter rules, competitive if they don't; unless a bull barrel is perceptibly more effective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SGT_Schultz Posted October 11, 2021 Share Posted October 11, 2021 (edited) Why even have an official rulebook? Just make up your own based on e-mails that answer your questions to your liking. Edited October 11, 2021 by SGT_Schultz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boomstick303 Posted October 11, 2021 Share Posted October 11, 2021 On 8/16/2021 at 5:42 AM, apetrulis01 said: So I emailed IDPA HQ. I stated two different coordinators give two different opinions about the Staccato P. They emailed back stating they are sending the question to my coordinator because they know the rules better.............wellllll thanks HQ that didn't help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RangerTrace Posted October 12, 2021 Share Posted October 12, 2021 On 10/11/2021 at 9:48 AM, Jim Watson said: I think "gentlemen's agreement" is a good term for it. Rev up your Grand Power before they change their minds. The Brock's Gap IDPA had a family group Saturday; Dad, Junior, and Sub-Junior, a heartwarming sight. But they may have been too lax on equipment, these guys were all fitted out in very nice USPSA Limited rigs with 2011s, lots of bucks on sporting goods for the boys. I guess the MD and CSO thought it worth the dispensation to get them to shoot. Why "too bad?" Good quality guns, legit if they go back to black letter rules, competitive if they don't; unless a bull barrel is perceptibly more effective. They went to quite a bit of trouble to make a 4.6" legal. Their testing shows the 4.6" gun with factory ammo have a perfect return to zero compared to the 4.25" bull barrel guns. I'm not paying another 5K for .4" of barrel!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluemooncricket Posted October 14, 2021 Share Posted October 14, 2021 On 10/12/2021 at 6:09 PM, RangerTrace said: They went to quite a bit of trouble to make a 4.6" legal. Their testing shows the 4.6" gun with factory ammo have a perfect return to zero compared to the 4.25" bull barrel guns. I'm not paying another 5K for .4" of barrel!! I actually had a conversation with Adam about an IDPA legal 4.6” gun before I purchased my Hyperion. He thought the barrel was going to be the problem because nobody made a bushing barrel that length. I guess they figured it out. As dumb as I am, I might even fork over the funds for a 4.6” bushing top end but I should probably just wait for the Hyperion to get approved instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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