Dry fire with DA/SA?

[Stafford]

For those with a DA/SA pistol, do you dry fire by pulling the DA every time? That's typically what I do but I don't know if that is the optimum thing to do or not. I saw one video that mentioned pulling the hammer back to SA and doing dry fire by lightly touching the trigger, just not enough to engage the hammer. 

[rowdyb]

Double action very little. Trigger pulls very little. I don't use dry fire for much trigger work but tons for visual, movement and other skills.

 

If I do press the da trigger and need to dry fire other trigger presses I just don't let the trigger reset and that more closely approximates the sa pull

[BZ919]

I used to dry fire DA 100%, and a lot.  I used a laser trainer during much of this. My first shot off the draw was very good; the rest, not so good. Someone pointed out how I was pulling my shots and suggested trigger presses without the reset after the first DA shot during dry fire.  It's the way to go.

 

Firing the first shot SA is good for Trigger Control Under Speed drills. While watching your dot/sights aimed at a target with finger on trigger, react to the timer and get the shot off before the end of the beep without disrupting the sight picture. Aiming into the corner of a wall is a great way to watch for side-to-side trigger jerks.

[2MoreChains]

DA pull for the first “shot” then don’t let the trigger reset and simulate firing subsequent “shots”.  Saying “pew pew pew…” out loud or in your head is optional.  

[konkapot]

Keep in mind that out of a 6 stage/150 rd match remember that you'll probably only have 5-6 DA trigger pulls throughout the entire match. 

[Stafford]

1 hour ago, konkapot said:

Keep in mind that out of a 6 stage/150 rd match remember that you'll probably only have 5-6 DA trigger pulls throughout the entire match. 

 

Yep, so to change the subject a bit.... For DA/SA shooters, do you plan your first array around the DA shot? Meaning, you take the easiest shot first regardless of how it might affect your time?

 

I always do this and plan what I'm doing around the first shot. I want to shoot at an open target if possible, or a closer target with the DA first pull. However, this is not always the fastest stage plan. For example, this weekend, I had a stage where most shooters went hard to the right for the first array, then went hard to their left for the second before entering the rest of the stage. 

 

There were 3 targets available on the right. The fastest route was to go to the inside cover and take the longest shot which had a no shoot, back out to the middle target which was a tuxedo, and back away and shoot at an open target and turn and run back to the left. As a DA first shot shooter, I did the opposite, taking the open target first, followed by the middle and then the longer shot hidden by cover. This took more time but I made sure that I shot the open target first with my DA first shot. So my movement was more static than those who shot the longer inside shot first. To me, that's the price of shooting a DA/SA pistol, but maybe I'm wrong.

 

Perhaps, I need to improve my DA shooting, or I shouldn't give a crap if I make the first shot or not, and just worry about speed.

 

 

[rowdyb]

Part of development is gaining the confidence to make those shots. To be good enough w the da pull it doesn't matter to you physically or mentally of the first shot is wide open paper at 5y or a mini popper w a no shoot behind it at 20y.

[SGT_Schultz]

7 hours ago, Stafford said:

 

As a DA first shot shooter, I did the opposite, taking the open target first, followed by the middle and then the longer shot hidden by cover. This took more time but I made sure that I shot the open target first with my DA first shot. So my movement was more static than those who shot the longer inside shot first. To me, that's the price of shooting a DA/SA pistol, but maybe I'm wrong.

 

Not maybe......

 

If you're not going to put in the work to make any shot with a DA then you're better off getting rid of it and just buying a striker fired pistol with a really light trigger.

Edited July 7, 2021 by SGT_Schultz

[zombywoof]

I practice my DA a bit. Then I tape the hammer back with a piece of tape wrapped around the beaver tail for SA.

[waktasz]

10 hours ago, Stafford said:

 

Yep, so to change the subject a bit.... For DA/SA shooters, do you plan your first array around the DA shot? Meaning, you take the easiest shot first regardless of how it might affect your time?

 

I always do this and plan what I'm doing around the first shot. I want to shoot at an open target if possible, or a closer target with the DA first pull. However, this is not always the fastest stage plan. For example, this weekend, I had a stage where most shooters went hard to the right for the first array, then went hard to their left for the second before entering the rest of the stage. 

 

There were 3 targets available on the right. The fastest route was to go to the inside cover and take the longest shot which had a no shoot, back out to the middle target which was a tuxedo, and back away and shoot at an open target and turn and run back to the left. As a DA first shot shooter, I did the opposite, taking the open target first, followed by the middle and then the longer shot hidden by cover. This took more time but I made sure that I shot the open target first with my DA first shot. So my movement was more static than those who shot the longer inside shot first. To me, that's the price of shooting a DA/SA pistol, but maybe I'm wrong.

 

Perhaps, I need to improve my DA shooting, or I shouldn't give a crap if I make the first shot or not, and just worry about speed.

 

 

 

I think this strategy of being a scaredy cat regarding the use of your own gun that you chose is bad for the mental game. 

[waktasz]

11 hours ago, 2MoreChains said:

DA pull for the first “shot” then don’t let the trigger reset and simulate firing subsequent “shots”.  Saying “pew pew pew…” out loud or in your head is optional.  

 

^^ this

[AverageJoeShooting]

can you imagine shooting a division where DA is even a thing

[Stafford]

Good advice on all fronts.

 

[Fishbreath]

4 hours ago, AverageJoeShooting said:

can you imagine shooting a division where DA is even a thing

 

Yes—in fact, I shoot a division where DA is the only thing. Great for your trigger and grip fundamentals, let me tell you.

[Eric802]

4 hours ago, AverageJoeShooting said:

can you imagine shooting a division where DA is even a thing

It's not for the weak. 

[PatJones]

After the first shot, only reset your finger to where the single action would pick up, the click of the hammer is not important.

 

On a related note, don't practice reloads and then pull the trigger double action. If you get used to the long heavy pull after you seat the magazine, it's an AD waiting to happen. Ask me how I know.

[motosapiens]

19 hours ago, Stafford said:

 

Yep, so to change the subject a bit.... For DA/SA shooters, do you plan your first array around the DA shot? Meaning, you take the easiest shot first regardless of how it might affect your time?

 

shooters that are not very good do this.  Shooters who are good don't lose a significant amount of time on the DA shot. On the hardest targets, it may be .1 slower. On most targets it's the exact same for me.

 

I spent some time years ago practicing shooting DA groups, and practicing draws to small steel targets. Once you learn it, it's like falling off a bicycle, you never forget how.

[ima45dv8]

I didn't ever get serious about shooting revolver division in USPSA. I did it once or twice just because a group of friends wanted to. It was fun. But I used to carry a revolver for EDC before finding this sport and tried to do all of my practice DA only.

 

Because of that, when I got an SP-O1, I didn't find the first-shot DA pull objectionable or scary. 

 

Like some of these guys have been saying. . .practice it, learn it, and move on.

[Mark52]

ima45dv8 I'm thinking seriously about getting an SP-01 or a Shadow 2 compact and am curious about how you dry fire with an SP-01--your technique. Can you advise?

[waktasz]

Pull the trigger for DA for the first shot, then don't release it all the way and pull it again. 

[ima45dv8]

^^^ A good answer from somebody who knows.

[Braxton1]

I espouse this:  For dry-fire shots coming out of the holster, Double-Action.

 

For dry-fire shots coming out of a low-ready or "compressed ready (right in front of the solar plexus)", single-action.  This would also include "run to a box/barricade and perform set-ups" dry-fire drills.

 

A great technique to drive your DA skills into the stratosphere is "duelling" (it looks like "dooling" to us Americans, but it's pronounced "doowelling"). 

 

Set your timer to a two second Par time to begin.  Have the gun in the Low Ready, depressed 45 degrees.  On start signal, bring the gun up to the target, find the sight picture, and press the trigger while refining the sight picture.  There should be little movement on the break. 

 

To begin, this will be done "freestyle", using both hands.  After you find success that way, switch to Strong Hand-only.  Once you get good at that, lower your Par times and/or shoot at smaller targets.

 

As others have said, we LIKE to spend our practice time doing things that we're good at.  It strokes our ego and makes us feel better about ourselves.  We only get better on a big scale by working on things that we suck at....

 

 

[waktasz]

What are you training for doing low ready double action shots? You are never at low ready in a USPSA match.

[Braxton1]

It's a technique for International (as in "Olympic") shooting that I brought over to training cops.  It works for the games also, because it is very over-center, exceeding what you'd likely be required to do in a USPSA or IDPA match.

 

Duelling from the low-ready enables you to isolate the trigger issues without the distractions of the drawstroke.  Eventually working on doing it SHO/WHO gets rid of the "cheat" of having the weak hand block any errant trigger push issues, forcing one to concentrate on pressing the trigger straight to the rear.

 

Of course, in time, the shooter can (and should) incorporate the drawstroke into their practice sessions, adjusting Par times and/or distances appropriately.

Edited September 26, 2023 by Braxton1