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Neomet
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Okay, long time CZ guy. TS, Shadow and now Shadow with an optic. (Not Shadow 2). It has been a while since I depleted the family checking account. Tell me why a Landon Beretta would be a better choice for either Production or CO. 

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I took a class with Ernie about 15 years ago (shortly after he left the Corps), and at one point he offered to let me shoot his Sig.

I turned to him and said, "That's a Cheater gun!" Unbelievable (to me) trigger and soft recoiling.

He gave a big smile and said, "You bet it is!"

 

I think there are better guns for Prod or CO, but it was the best Pig Sauer I ever shot.

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18 hours ago, NuJudge said:

How do you shoot them?  I believe I shoot the Beretta, with his trigger job, trigger bar, light mainspring and thin grips, better than the CZ.  

This is the most important question. If you shoot it better get it. Gun choice is so much about preference. Feel etc 

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The problem with that approach is that I won't know how I shoot it until after I buy it and shoot it long enough to know if I like it better than the CZs. A mag of someone else's ammo in their gun does not  a fair comparison make. I was hoping to profit off of others' experiences between the two before dropping cash on one. 

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trigger control of most platforms can be mastered by anyone who tries, so choosing something off trigger alone i don't think is a good pathway. and as you said, who wants to buy and sell guns over and over again to find what they like if they don't have to?

 

so ask yourself, what do you like in a gun? do you like to work on your gun yourself? do you care how much aftermarket support there is for a gun? what is your true purpose for the gun? what about it visually and intellectually makes you want one physically?

 

after answering all of that, truthfully, i think you can take one in hand and simply say to yourself, "do i like how this feels? do i have any reservations at all? is there any required action i can't see myself performing with this gun? can i manipulate every control easily?"

 

then if you feel really positively about all those answers you'll likely be able to shoot one as well as you allow yourself to.

 

i shot a friends WC and his LTT. they were not for me as i wasn't confident doing all the work on it myself, the people who i saw shooting them seemed to have more frequent issues of some kind than others guns i was considering, the narrow aftermarket support, the available rear sight profiles, and the balance of it in hand. but most of what you'll decide is subjective and personal. good luck!

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2 hours ago, rowdyb said:

trigger control of most platforms can be mastered by anyone who tries, so choosing something off trigger alone i don't think is a good pathway. and as you said, who wants to buy and sell guns over and over again to find what they like if they don't have to?

 

so ask yourself, what do you like in a gun? do you like to work on your gun yourself? do you care how much aftermarket support there is for a gun? what is your true purpose for the gun? what about it visually and intellectually makes you want one physically?

 

after answering all of that, truthfully, i think you can take one in hand and simply say to yourself, "do i like how this feels? do i have any reservations at all? is there any required action i can't see myself performing with this gun? can i manipulate every control easily?"

 

then if you feel really positively about all those answers you'll likely be able to shoot one as well as you allow yourself to.

 

i shot a friends WC and his LTT. they were not for me as i wasn't confident doing all the work on it myself, the people who i saw shooting them seemed to have more frequent issues of some kind than others guns i was considering, the narrow aftermarket support, the available rear sight profiles, and the balance of it in hand. but most of what you'll decide is subjective and personal. good luck!

Well said! 

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On 7/9/2021 at 4:01 PM, rowdyb said:

trigger control of most platforms can be mastered by anyone who tries, so choosing something off trigger alone i don't think is a good pathway. and as you said, who wants to buy and sell guns over and over again to find what they like if they don't have to?

 

so ask yourself, what do you like in a gun? do you like to work on your gun yourself? do you care how much aftermarket support there is for a gun? what is your true purpose for the gun? what about it visually and intellectually makes you want one physically?

 

after answering all of that, truthfully, i think you can take one in hand and simply say to yourself, "do i like how this feels? do i have any reservations at all? is there any required action i can't see myself performing with this gun? can i manipulate every control easily?"

 

then if you feel really positively about all those answers you'll likely be able to shoot one as well as you allow yourself to.

 

i shot a friends WC and his LTT. they were not for me as i wasn't confident doing all the work on it myself, the people who i saw shooting them seemed to have more frequent issues of some kind than others guns i was considering, the narrow aftermarket support, the available rear sight profiles, and the balance of it in hand. but most of what you'll decide is subjective and personal. good luck!

Well said buddy!! 

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Well since you asked....

 

1. Recoil charactaristics: the beretta recoil system gives a "less violent" recoil impulse vs a browning tilt locking system, and the lightweight slide means the reciprocation of the slide has less leverage over your wrist vs a browning tilt locking system.

      You may find this lowers your split times and makes SHO/WHO shooting easier. In the video above the LTT had less muzzle climb than the S2 despite being almost 12 ounces lighter. In other words, you get the recoil handling characteristics of a 45+oz gun with the transitioning charactaristics of a 34oz gun. Of course recoil is highly subjective so YMMV, but this has been my experience with the LTT.

 

2. Grip: you may find the shape of the 92 grip and the lack of frame controls allows your support hand better purchase on the grip, further improving recoil handling characteristics and general shooting comfort.

 

3. Decocker: you get a decocker.

 

The following don't matter for competition, but may be important for carry:

 

4. Consistency: if you compete with an LTT full size, and carry an LTT Centurion or Compact, your competition gun and carry gun are virtually identical in every way. You have nearly 100% skill carryover between the gun you spend most of your time practicing with and the one you might be trusting your life to.

    Of course CZ makes carry guns too, but compared to a P01 or P07, an S2 is 1lb heavier, has slightly different ergos, and has different controls (i.e. no decocker), so you will need to spend relatively more time actually practicing with your carry gun to reliably shoot at a high level under stress.

 

5. Efficiency: with 18rd mecgar mags, the beretta is one of the most capacity-efficient guns out there. The grip length is shorter than a G17, I think shorter than a CZ75, and holds 1-2 more rounds.

Edited by Tictacticaltimmy
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Comes down to feeling, I own both a cajunized cz and a beretta ltt with the goodies. Objectively there is just something different about the recoil impulse on the Beretta, it feels like a 1911 soft push but in 9mm. Secondly, the triggers are a toss up because it comes down to feeling. The reset is shorter on the Beretta without compromising safety features (I also carry the LTT), it's the shortest reset I've felt on a DA/SA. The rest is all personal preference, you just have to shoot them to find out.

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On 7/9/2021 at 1:14 AM, Neomet said:

The problem with that approach is that I won't know how I shoot it until after I buy it and shoot it long enough to know if I like it better than the CZs. A mag of someone else's ammo in their gun does not  a fair comparison make. I was hoping to profit off of others' experiences between the two before dropping cash on one. 

After the first little bit, improvement in shooting sports is mostly the serial pursuit of incremental advantage.  If you stick with it, you will probably find yourself with a large box full of holsters you have tried, a safe full of firearms, and large accumulation of ammo components in calibers you used to shoot a lot, but not lately.  

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On 7/22/2021 at 1:33 PM, NuJudge said:

After the first little bit, improvement in shooting sports is mostly the serial pursuit of incremental advantage.  If you stick with it, you will probably find yourself with a large box full of holsters you have tried, a safe full of firearms, and large accumulation of ammo components in calibers you used to shoot a lot, but not lately.  

Quit looking in my gun room or I will get a restraining order!! LOL

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This might sound silly, but I gave the LTT Beretta a shot because it was "different".

 

There are a good amount of shooters at local matches that are CZ fans and swear by it. Great guns, shoot great.

 

I picked up a M9A3... the the LTT Trigger Job in a bag... and the better shooters were impressed.  I splurged on a LTT with NP3 coating and right off the rip impressed with it.  

 

It just hits different.  When people ask me what i'm shooting and tell them LTT, the response was always, "Ooooooooooooo lemme see that."  lol!

 

If you do end up getting one, get one with the TJIAB installed from LTT.  They put some extra "sauce" on it!

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I did my own trigger job this last weekend. Used the Langdon trigger bar in NP3, an Elite II Hammer and 13lb hammer spring. Stoned/polished everything up nice. The Langdon trigger bar is awesome. Single action pull and reset is as good as my 1911's and there is almost no overtravel. The shorter reset is no joke. Double action has no stacking and is smooth at 7lbs. 

 

Added an extended magazine release and beveled and polished the Magwell. I'll probably throw a G conversion on it and call it good. Maybe an LPA or Wilson rear sight in the future but my 92FS will still have the dot front. I could paint it or drill it for a fiber optic or gold bead. 

 

In retrospect I might have gone with an LTT Elite. It has all the right features. I'm really loving and looking forward to shooting a Beretta though. 

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10 hours ago, MrUnderwood08 said:

I did my own trigger job this last weekend. Used the Langdon trigger bar in NP3, an Elite II Hammer ...

 

Have you tried the Beretta Match hammer?  It's kind of a game changer.

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On 7/5/2021 at 7:06 PM, Neomet said:

Okay, long time CZ guy. TS, Shadow and now Shadow with an optic. (Not Shadow 2). It has been a while since I depleted the family checking account. Tell me why a Landon Beretta would be a better choice for either Production or CO. 

This is just a box stock LTT model.  This was only my 2nd attempt for that particular drill that day:

 

 

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