Two pass reloaders, is the 1st pass before or after cleaning brass???

[Cuz]

9 hours ago, Johnnymazz said:

The tolorences are super tight on the RL1100. If you get one little piece of corn cobb fall into the primer bar system it will get jammed up or not prime a case. Also it keeps the loading machine nice and clean. Thats why Im running ther Cp2000 and the RL1100. Once Dillon comes out with their version of the Ammobot drive system. Im going to get another full automated RL1100. Dedicated machine just to prime cases. 

My primer slide has been getting sticky, so even though I’ve loaded less than 5k rounds I think it’s time to break down and clean/lube the press. I guess I’ll learn a bit more about my press in the process. 

[Cuz]

12 hours ago, Sigarmsp226 said:

After sorting my brass using an old Frankfort Arsenal vibratory cleaner mounted to a 5 gallon bucket and the plastic colored brass sorting trays (turn it on and let the vibratory unit do the rest) 

 

Ok Mark, I’ve been wanting to do this for a while with the small size Dillon tumbler I saved when I upgraded to the larger size. 
 

do we have a thread just for making this with pics and a list of everything I need and how to do it?  

 

Can I nominate you for the task???

 

[Johnnymazz]

7 minutes ago, Cuz said:

My primer slide has been getting sticky, so even though I’ve loaded less than 5k rounds I think it’s time to break down and clean/lube the press. I guess I’ll learn a bit more about my press in the process. 

Wet sand the primer set up like I suggested.

[Cuz]

Just now, Johnnymazz said:

Wet sand the primer set up like I suggested.

Yeah, but first I have to work up the nerve to take it all apart. 
 

I think another hour of YouTube videos will get me there…

[Sigarmsp226]

6 minutes ago, Cuz said:

Ok Mark, I’ve been wanting to do this for a while with the small size Dillon tumbler I saved when I upgraded to the larger size. 
 

do we have a thread just for making this with pics and a list of everything I need and how to do it?  

 

Can I nominate you for the task???

 

Cuz - Heck yes my friend - I will work over the next couple of days to put together a short pictorial process summary of how I do what I do….This will be fun….Update to follow to the forum group in this thread….Mark

[Sigarmsp226]

9 hours ago, Johnnymazz said:

Basically it all depends on how anal you want to get with clean brass. Im an OCD freak so this makes me happy

Johnny - I said it before and will say it again - Impressive reloading room and set up(s)…… One of these days I will have something like this…One of these days…Mark

[Sigarmsp226]

Cuz - Per your request

 

Picture 1 shows how I removed the "bowl" from the FA vibratory unit and replaced it with a 3 gallon bucket.  You will also see I attached the bottom of the FA unit to a round piece of scrap aluminum to make the base wider and more stable because when you turn this think on it wants to move around a bit....

 

 Picture 2 shows how I used the provided all threaded bolt that came with the FA unit and drilled a hole in the bottom of the 3 gallon bucket, added a fender washer, and tightened the wing nut.  

 

Picture 3 shows what the FA unit looks like with the FIRST 3 gallon bucket attached (note the # 1 on the side of the bucket)....

 

Picture 4 shows a second 3 gallon bucket with the bottom cut 90% out (leave a 1" ring around the outside to hold the aluminum 380 sorting plate in place)... This bucket is labeled # 2 and when inserted also holds the BLACK plastic sorting tray on its top opening.

 

 

Picture 5 - Shows Bucket 2 with the black plastic sorting tray (have to look close) as well as bucket top # 3 and # 4 and their sorting trays.  I cut the top off of two - 3 gallon buckets to allow more brass to be sorted between sorting cycles.  You can use the colored trays without the spacers but you will have to stop more often to empty the trays as they start filling up with sorted brass.  

 

And Picture 6 - Shows the entire system assembled and how I use it.  I dump brass into the top and each tray will sort specific brass.  Just under the number 4 - you can barely see the "blue" plastic sorting tray and under the number 3 - you can barely see the "black" plastic sorting tray.  

 

 

After you remove the top trays and are left with the "black" plastic tray - this tray contains all of your 9mm and 380 brass.  You pour that into a container on the side and when you are finished with your primary sorting you then remove all of the trays and spacers.  LEAVE bucket # 2 on the system with the aluminum 380 tray in its bottom (remember I cut out 90% of this buckets bottom to hold the 380 aluminum sorting tray).....Now you pour in 9mm and 380 mixed brass that you pulled from your "black" plastic tray earlier and all 380 brass will go through the aluminum tray in the bottom of bucket 2 and will rest in the bottom of bucket 1 that is attached to the FA vibratory unit.  

 

The key to this working well is to NOT over load this aluminum tray - I drop in a handful of the 9mm/380 mixed brass every 10-15 seconds and then stick my hand into the bottom of the bucket and "swirl" the vibrating brass around to ensure all 380 brass has the opportunity to make good surface contact with the 380 aluminum tray.  Once the tray surface is covered with brass - I again "swirl" the brass around with my hand and then remove bucket 2 from the system (leaving the vibrator running), carefully dump out the 9mm brass that the aluminum tray caught into a separate container, put the # 2 bucket back into the unit and repeat.....I also wear ear plugs and headphones while I do this because this entire process is loud and it gets louder when you are pouring brass onto the aluminum tray.  When I am finished all 380 brass is in the bottom of bucket one - where it is removed and put into its own special container with its other 380 friends......Hope this helps you and/or others...Not saying my way is the best way but I recently sorted 30 gallons of mixed brass thru this unit and it took me about 90 minutes total time to complete the sorting and I was not rushing anything....Mark

[Cuz]

1 hour ago, Sigarmsp226 said:

Cuz - Per your request

 

Picture 1 shows how I removed the "bowl" from the FA vibratory unit and replaced it with a 3 gallon bucket.  You will also see I attached the bottom of the FA unit to a round piece of scrap aluminum to make the base wider and more stable because when you turn this think on it wants to move around a bit....

 

 Picture 2 shows how I used the provided all threaded bolt that came with the FA unit and drilled a hole in the bottom of the 3 gallon bucket, added a fender washer, and tightened the wing nut.  

 

Picture 3 shows what the FA unit looks like with the FIRST 3 gallon bucket attached (note the # 1 on the side of the bucket)....

 

Picture 4 shows a second 3 gallon bucket with the bottom cut 90% out (leave a 1" ring around the outside to hold the aluminum 380 sorting plate in place)... This bucket is labeled # 2 and when inserted also holds the BLACK plastic sorting tray on its top opening.

 

 

Picture 5 - Shows Bucket 2 with the black plastic sorting tray (have to look close) as well as bucket top # 3 and # 4 and their sorting trays.  I cut the top off of two - 3 gallon buckets to allow more brass to be sorted between sorting cycles.  You can use the colored trays without the spacers but you will have to stop more often to empty the trays as they start filling up with sorted brass.  

 

And Picture 6 - Shows the entire system assembled and how I use it.  I dump brass into the top and each tray will sort specific brass.  Just under the number 4 - you can barely see the "blue" plastic sorting tray and under the number 3 - you can barely see the "black" plastic sorting tray.  

 

 

After you remove the top trays and are left with the "black" plastic tray - this tray contains all of your 9mm and 380 brass.  You pour that into a container on the side and when you are finished with your primary sorting you then remove all of the trays and spacers.  LEAVE bucket # 2 on the system with the aluminum 380 tray in its bottom (remember I cut out 90% of this buckets bottom to hold the 380 aluminum sorting tray).....Now you pour in 9mm and 380 mixed brass that you pulled from your "black" plastic tray earlier and all 380 brass will go through the aluminum tray in the bottom of bucket 2 and will rest in the bottom of bucket 1 that is attached to the FA vibratory unit.  

 

The key to this working well is to NOT over load this aluminum tray - I drop in a handful of the 9mm/380 mixed brass every 10-15 seconds and then stick my hand into the bottom of the bucket and "swirl" the vibrating brass around to ensure all 380 brass has the opportunity to make good surface contact with the 380 aluminum tray.  Once the tray surface is covered with brass - I again "swirl" the brass around with my hand and then remove bucket 2 from the system (leaving the vibrator running), carefully dump out the 9mm brass that the aluminum tray caught into a separate container, put the # 2 bucket back into the unit and repeat.....I also wear ear plugs and headphones while I do this because this entire process is loud and it gets louder when you are pouring brass onto the aluminum tray.  When I am finished all 380 brass is in the bottom of bucket one - where it is removed and put into its own special container with its other 380 friends......Hope this helps you and/or others...Not saying my way is the best way but I recently sorted 30 gallons of mixed brass thru this unit and it took me about 90 minutes total time to complete the sorting and I was not rushing anything....Mark

Thanks Mark,

how did you cut the bucket rings?

[Sigarmsp226]

Jig Saw with a wood cutting blade - I guess one could also use a reciprocating saw.  As you can see my cutting skills are about like my shooting skills - Not great - but I always have a good time......

[Johnnymazz]

Thats a good idea Mark. I just bought 3 seperate tumblers from Berrys. They do a decent job. Wet cleaning just eliminates all the dirt from the cases, thats why I do the extra step. I use a gold sifting pan that I got from Amazon to rinse the brass, in the slop sink.

[2tuf4u]

22 hours ago, SJBriggs said:

Same here. I haven't noticed any difference in super shiny brass verses brass that has only been wet tumbled, but to each their own. I ALWAYS use One Shot on my clean brass. It makes the press run so much smoother and doesn't hardly take any additional time.

 

I'm not super familiar with the swaging process. If I were to wet tumble my brass without decaping the old primers, would swaging scrape out all the residue that's left behind in the primer pockets after they've been decaped? I'm looking to upgrade my press to a Apex 10 - which has a swaging station - so if I can get away with eliminating a step of the reloading process, then all the better. 

Primer pocket swaging is not intended to remove carbon and has little effect on the primer pocket carbon. The swaging station will have a small amount of PP carbon particles that can "flake off" 

[Lastcat]

1 hour ago, Johnnymazz said:

Thats a good idea Mark. I just bought 3 seperate tumblers from Berrys. They do a decent job. Wet cleaning just eliminates all the dirt from the cases, thats why I do the extra step. I use a gold sifting pan that I got from Amazon to rinse the brass, in the slop sink.

 

I use those too. I have the fine mesh (they stack very well) on the bottom to drain water and catch pins. 

[Sigarmsp226]

If anyone is looking to purchase a LEE “U” die for 9mm Lee Precision site now has some in stock. Link below. Mark

 

https://leeprecision.com/undersize-sizing-die-9mm.html

 

 

Edited July 22, 2021 by Sigarmsp226

[cool]

Hello, here is my method

removing the primer on a single station press when a primer is effortlessly ejected the cartridge case goes to the trash, I think it's the single station that allows this sensitivity.

Milling the vent hole to the same depth I use a K&M Service bur on a drill all mounted by the collar on a clamped support

Ultrasound 20 minutes

drying

Rollsizer

lubrication of cases

reloading Evo Pro

[Cuz]

58 minutes ago, cool said:

Hello, here is my method

removing the primer on a single station press when a primer is effortlessly ejected the cartridge case goes to the trash, I think it's the single station that allows this sensitivity.

Milling the vent hole to the same depth I use a K&M Service bur on a drill all mounted by the collar on a clamped support

Ultrasound 20 minutes

drying

Rollsizer

lubrication of cases

reloading Evo Pro

Is that for rifle or pistol cases?

decapping on a single stage press?  That would take WAY too long for me. I went with the RL1100 to minimize reloading time, and to make the time I did spend reloading a little easier than on my 550. I don’t mind my 2 pass method, and I’m even 2nd guessing my need to automate. I am shooting less than 10k rounds a year, so in less than 8 hours I could load up the whole years worth of ammo manually, even with 2 passes. 
 

[cool]

It's for pistol.

Manual decapping for me is the only solution to eliminate cases that are dead.

As soon as I come back from a shooting session I do the cartridge case process.

For 15,000 to 20,000 cartridges per year I have to motorize because I have already had tendonitis.

[Cuz]

2 hours ago, cool said:

It's for pistol.

Manual decapping for me is the only solution to eliminate cases that are dead.

As soon as I come back from a shooting session I do the cartridge case process.

For 15,000 to 20,000 cartridges per year I have to motorize because I have already had tendonitis.

i suppose in small batches it wouldn’t be too bad. I tend to wait until I get about a 5 gallon bucket full before I do anything. 

[JDIllon]

I don’t understand! Why the two steps! For 9mm I clean all mixed 9mm brass. Then spray a couple of hundred cases with Franklin case lube and size decap, swage,prime and flare case and load powder, drop bullet seat ,crimp and finished all in one pass. I have loaded thousands of rounds that way? JD 

[Cuz]

8 hours ago, JDIllon said:

I don’t understand! Why the two steps! For 9mm I clean all mixed 9mm brass. Then spray a couple of hundred cases with Franklin case lube and size decap, swage,prime and flare case and load powder, drop bullet seat ,crimp and finished all in one pass. I have loaded thousands of rounds that way? JD 

if you have a 100% reliable sizing/decapping die in that 1st station, then you are correct. 
 

however, if it’s not 100%, then you have to decide what percentage of failed primer extractions is annoying enough to get you to convert to the 2 pass system. 
 

I now have four 9mm sizing/decapping dies (2 Dillon, 2 Lee, standard & undersized). None of them work reliably 100% of the time. I picked up an FW Arms “popper” decapper, and that so far, has worked 100% of the time through about 5000 cases. 
 

This is also my first auto indexing press. I’m coming from an RL550 where nothing happened until I indexed the press so if I wasn’t sure about anything it was easily verified. Things happen faster on the 1100, and I found that by going to a 2 pass system with multiple sizing/decapping dies added after the FW Arms Popper, then I could cruise through the 1st pass without really paying attention as there really wasn’t anything going on. 
 

Then, when I switch toolheads to load, I pay closer attention, and the whole process is smoother since there are no spent primers to worry about and the press runs much smoother. 
 

I also thought this would be a better plan if I automated the press, but in reality, I probably only shoot a few thousand rounds a year, so I’ve decided that I’ll spend the $2200 on primers when they become available rather than on an auto drive. 

[JDIllon]

1 hour ago, Cuz said:

if you have a 100% reliable sizing/decapping die in that 1st station, then you are correct. 
 

however, if it’s not 100%, then you have to decide what percentage of failed primer extractions is annoying enough to get you to convert to the 2 pass system. 
 

I now have four 9mm sizing/decapping dies (2 Dillon, 2 Lee, standard & undersized). None of them work reliably 100% of the time. I picked up an FW Arms “popper” decapper, and that so far, has worked 100% of the time through about 5000 cases. 
 

This is also my first auto indexing press. I’m coming from an RL550 where nothing happened until I indexed the press so if I wasn’t sure about anything it was easily verified. Things happen faster on the 1100, and I found that by going to a 2 pass system with multiple sizing/decapping dies added after the FW Arms Popper, then I could cruise through the 1st pass without really paying attention as there really wasn’t anything going on. 
 

Then, when I switch toolheads to load, I pay closer attention, and the whole process is smoother since there are no spent primers to worry about and the press runs much smoother. 
 

I also thought this would be a better plan if I automated the press, but in reality, I probably only shoot a few thousand rounds a year, so I’ve decided that I’ll spend the $2200 on primers when they become available rather than on an auto drive. 

I use Dillon decap and sizing with pin filed slightly. I get less than 1% pull back primers. Also if you are running the swage station? You can feel the primer is still in the case, and remove that case at that station and continue loading. The other thing that solved all of my sizing problems ,was changing to the Lee final crimp and sizing die. And I check all in a plunk gage. The Dillon decapper with the spring assist seems to work fine for me. JD 

[George16]

59 minutes ago, JDIllon said:

I use Dillon decap and sizing with pin filed slightly. I get less than 1% pull back primers. Also if you are running the swage station? You can feel the primer is still in the case, and remove that case at that station and continue loading. The other thing that solved all of my sizing problems ,was changing to the Lee final crimp and sizing die. And I check all in a plunk gage. The Dillon decapper with the spring assist seems to work fine for me. JD 

1% pullback is one too many for me to mess round with. Besides, what a better way to kill my retirement time by reloading at a pace and the way I want .

 

 

 

Edited August 14, 2021 by George16

[67isb]

2 hours ago, Cuz said:

if you have a 100% reliable sizing/decapping die in that 1st station, then you are correct. 
 

 

I'm using Redding dies and I'm not experiencing any issues with primer pull back.  I make sure I round off the sharp 90 degree corners to keep them from piercing the primer.

 

I do agree there is a benefit of running 2 pass.  You could always get a "ringer" primer and have issues on the swaging  and priming station.   

 

This is what I've been thinking about doing after dry tumbling brass using 2 different presses.

 

First pass - size, decap, swage/expand, and prime.

Second pass - drop powder, seat and crimp

 

I'm thinking this should result in more consistent powder drops since I'm not having to deal with varying sizing effort which can vary from case to case.    This is where I see the value of in having an automated press.  

 

Edited August 14, 2021 by 67isb

[JDIllon]

20 minutes ago, George16 said:

1% pullback is one too many for me to mess round with. Besides, what a better way to kill my retirement time by reloading at a pace and the way I want .

 

 

 

Hey what ever makes you happy. Whit my arthritis, I don’t need the extra affort of things twice. 
Just a side note I used to dry tumble! Have head of Brass Juice? Never going back to dry again, this stuff is great and clean. No more dust or little pieces of crap in your press. JD 

[George16]

14 minutes ago, JDIllon said:

Hey what ever makes you happy. Whit my arthritis, I don’t need the extra affort of things twice. 
Just a side note I used to dry tumble! Have head of Brass Juice? Never going back to dry again, this stuff is great and clean. No more dust or little pieces of crap in your press. JD 

Oh yeah I heard about brass juice. I don’t use it though. I made my own solution for wet tumbling which works just as good or better and a lot cheaper.
 

Results are like these:

 

[JDIllon]

1 minute ago, George16 said:

Oh yeah I heard about brass juice. I don’t use it though. I made my own solution for wet tumbling which works just as good or better and a lot cheaper.
 

Results are like these:

 

OK, what is your formula? They look great! JD