Rimfire Compensators - Effective?

[Hoops]

With our AMG timers, we very rarely get a missed shot.  Beyond that, I am not sure I personnally can tell if a comp on my threaded barrel RFRO actually makes a difference.

 

I have a Ruger Mark IV lite with competition trigger than I plan to start shooting SCSA matches.  With the thought of keeping the muzzle light, I have been back and forth about adding a compensator......what weight, style, benefit, etc.

 

I have a good selection of quality match HV ammo and also a good selection of SV ammo.......SK, Aguila Pistol Competion and CCI that I could run in the pistol.

 

I would appreciate input from Rimfire pistol SCSA match shooter's on this subject.........compensator or no compensator?

 

Thanks

[apoc4lypse]

I find that it makes a noticeable difference in muzzle rise on my Black Mamba.  I'm using an aluminum single port Carolina Crusher from Wiland. 

 

My friend has the MkIV Lite 22/45 and the TK aluminum compensator helped as well, though it's a pain to clean.

[Dr. Phil]

Somewhere I have an old video of my GSG 1911 rimfire without and with the compensator. 

It made a big difference on that gun! Later I realized it's all relative. 

I now shoot a Browning Buckmark with a few mods in SC. I can't blame the gun when I don't get the results I want. It's always the loose nut that holds the gun!

[zzt]

For RFPO, absolutely a comp.  They make a difference.

 

For RFRO I can't say yet.  Obviously you cannot put a comp on a Wiland barrel.  The Raptor barrel I shot at the last match had no comp.  I shot SV and didn't notice any muzzle rise.  I've just set the rifle up for HV and I'll experiment with and without and get back to you.  My before hand guess it the extra weight out front will make the Raptor a tad slower in transitions.  I tried a 2" long Maddmac comp on it and I could really tell the weight difference.

[Hoops]

6 minutes ago, zzt said:

For RFPO, absolutely a comp.  They make a difference.

 

For RFRO I can't say yet.  Obviously you cannot put a comp on a Wiland barrel.  The Raptor barrel I shot at the last match had no comp.  I shot SV and didn't notice any muzzle rise.  I've just set the rifle up for HV and I'll experiment with and without and get back to you.  My before hand guess it the extra weight out front will make the Raptor a tad slower in transitions.  I tried a 2" long Maddmac comp on it and I could really tell the weight difference.

For my two RFRO's.......one with Wiland barrel and one with Raptor barrel, I also don't notice muzzle rise with either.  No real difference between HV and SV ammo.  I experimented with a comp on the Raptor and I could feel the weight on the muzzle.   My conclustion for the RFRO's with my two barrel types is no comp.  (I also don't use a comp on my MPX/PCCO.....just the flash hider.  I only shoot light loads for matches)

 

My focus now is setting up my RFPO.  I haven't shot it much over the past 18 months.  I have tried several comp's but haven't found one that I settled on.  I noticed on Wiland's website a comp named Falcon.  Has anyone tried this one? 

 

Also.....for those of you using comp's on your pistol's do you notice a difference when shooting SV vs. HV ammo?

 

Thanks. 

[apoc4lypse]

The standard comp on my Black Mamba made me a believer in the single port design.  The downside of the Volquartsen comp is that it's prone to breakage, owing to the knurled knob cutting too much material from the compensator body, leaving only a single top strap to absorb the force against the compensator.  This creates a stress point that can crack after thousands of rounds worth of expelled gases, as I discovered first hand.

 

That's why I like the Carolina Crusher - it's a single port but screws on like any other comp, so it has a beefier body.  It's also easier to clean (I use an X-acto knife with scalpel and chisel blades). 

 

The Falcon looks like it'd be harder to clean, and I don't think side porting along with top porting is as effective as single vertical porting.  That is just my conjecture though; it would be interesting to see the two compared using an accelerometer setup.

[EarlKeese]

I have both a Falcon and a Carolina Crusher that I use for RFPO(CP33 & TX22 Comp). The Falcon is definitely harder to clean, fouls quicker, and is a little lighter than the Crusher. That said, in my experience the Falcon shoots a little flatter and I don't feel the weight at the end of the muzzle. I believe the side ports on the Falcon are intended to direct sound towards the timer. 

[Hoops]

4 hours ago, EarlKeese said:

I have both a Falcon and a Carolina Crusher that I use for RFPO(CP33 & TX22 Comp). The Falcon is definitely harder to clean, fouls quicker, and is a little lighter than the Crusher. That said, in my experience the Falcon shoots a little flatter and I don't feel the weight at the end of the muzzle. I believe the side ports on the Falcon are intended to direct sound towards the timer. 

 

4 hours ago, apoc4lypse said:

The standard comp on my Black Mamba made me a believer in the single port design.  The downside of the Volquartsen comp is that it's prone to breakage, owing to the knurled knob cutting too much material from the compensator body, leaving only a single top strap to absorb the force against the compensator.  This creates a stress point that can crack after thousands of rounds worth of expelled gases, as I discovered first hand.

 

That's why I like the Carolina Crusher - it's a single port but screws on like any other comp, so it has a beefier body.  It's also easier to clean (I use an X-acto knife with scalpel and chisel blades). 

 

The Falcon looks like it'd be harder to clean, and I don't think side porting along with top porting is as effective as single vertical porting.  That is just my conjecture though; it would be interesting to see the two compared using an accelerometer setup.

The Carolina Crusher definitely appears easier to clean.  I used to shoot a STI Steelmaster with a 2x chamber comp.  It was always the question of what type ammo actually caused the comp to work.   Looks like getting a couple of comps and spending some time at the range with differnt ammo is in order for the Ruger 22/45 Lite.

 

Thanks.

 

Happy 4th of July................

 

 

 

  

 

 

 

 

[zzt]

Hoops, the secret to buying a good RFPO comp is to go light, short, and properly baffled.  Many, if not most comp makers have large holes through the baffle(s) and a small hole at the front to make it look good.  Some of them are actually fine.  To get the best action the baffles have to have holes in them just a little larger than the bullet.  That makes the gun softer and flatter.  You also only want up ports.

 

I just shot an outlaw match this morning using 40 gr Minimags in my 22 conversion w/comp.  The dot did not move.

[Hoops]

1 hour ago, zzt said:

Hoops, the secret to buying a good RFPO comp is to go light, short, and properly baffled.  Many, if not most comp makers have large holes through the baffle(s) and a small hole at the front to make it look good.  Some of them are actually fine.  To get the best action the baffles have to have holes in them just a little larger than the bullet.  That makes the gun softer and flatter.  You also only want up ports.

 

I just shot an outlaw match this morning using 40 gr Minimags in my 22 conversion w/comp.  The dot did not move.

Good advise/info.  I will look closer at the description and pictures before I buy based on external looks.

 

Nice on the Outlaw match.  Sounds like you have a nice set up.  I will get there. 

 

Is your conversion kit based on a 1911 platform?  I have a Mark IV 4" tactical and the 4" lite version.  I gravitate to the Tactical version....a little heavier but it feel more stable in my hands.

[zzt]

13 minutes ago, Hoops said:

 

Is your conversion kit based on a 1911 platform?

 

Yes.  I decided a a couple of years ago to stick to the 1911/2011 platform.  Previously, switching between the full race Buckmark, CZ TS Limited gun,1911 guns and 2011s was too much of a hassle.  Every time I switched guns I'd have to dry fire for a week to get the sights to come up where they needed to be.

 

So now all I shoot for pistol are two 2011 Open guns, a 1911 Open gun for SCSA (with a spare non-comp'd barrel also), a 1911 bullseye 45, a 1911 competition 45, a Marvel Unit One conversion with the .4" to .49" @ 50 yard guarantee for bullseye, plus the custom CWA conversion upper with comp for SCSA.  The three Open guns are set up identically, and so are the remaining guns and conversion units.  It make life simpler.  My wife shoots the Buckmark now and the CZ TS Limited gun just sits around hoping someone will shoot it.  I've sold everything else except the XD 4" 9mm I picked off the prize table.  That sits at home for defense.

[Hoops]

25 minutes ago, zzt said:

 

Yes.  I decided a a couple of years ago to stick to the 1911/2011 platform.  Previously, switching between the full race Buckmark, CZ TS Limited gun,1911 guns and 2011s was too much of a hassle.  Every time I switched guns I'd have to dry fire for a week to get the sights to come up where they needed to be.

 

So now all I shoot for pistol are two 2011 Open guns, a 1911 Open gun for SCSA (with a spare non-comp'd barrel also), a 1911 bullseye 45, a 1911 competition 45, a Marvel Unit One conversion with the .4" to .49" @ 50 yard guarantee for bullseye, plus the custom CWA conversion upper with comp for SCSA.  The three Open guns are set up identically, and so are the remaining guns and conversion units.  It make life simpler.  My wife shoots the Buckmark now and the CZ TS Limited gun just sits around hoping someone will shoot it.  I've sold everything else except the XD 4" 9mm I picked off the prize table.  That sits at home for defense.

Interesting.  For a long time I shot only STI Steelmaster (open), STI Edge (Limited) and a 22/45 Mark III 4" non-threaded/no comp bull barrel with thicker grips and 1-3/4 lb trigger.   I always liked the feel of the Mark III compared to my other two guns.  I ran the 22/45 primarilly at a monthly Outlaw 22LR only match........4" and up sized targets, etc.  The gun alway ran well and was a shooter without a comp.

 

Last year I go caught up in the 22/45 lighter version guns.  Perhaps it's time to break out the Mark III for a test run.

[zzt]

I'm the opposite.  I shoot way more USPSA Open major with the 2011s than anything.  So I want a more hand filling grip.  My Ruger, Scorpion and Buckmark were not 1911 grip angle, so that was the problem.  Actually, neither were the other three I tried previously.  I think at my age I'm just not adaptable anymore.

[AzShooter]

I like the Volquartsen compensator on my Black Mamba.  It's no problem to clean if you use the Pulverizer from Volquartsen.  Simply take off the comp, run the Pulverizer through until you get out all the lead and that's it.  I've been running my comp for over 80K rounds with no problems.

 

My Mark IV 22/45 Lite has a Carolina Crusher on it.  It's perhaps the easiest compensator to keep clean.

[Hoops]

9 minutes ago, AzShooter said:

I like the Volquartsen compensator on my Black Mamba.  It's no problem to clean if you use the Pulverizer from Volquartsen.  Simply take off the comp, run the Pulverizer through until you get out all the lead and that's it.  I've been running my comp for over 80K rounds with no problems.

 

My Mark IV 22/45 Lite has a Carolina Crusher on it.  It's perhaps the easiest compensator to keep clean.

Nice pistols.

 

Curious....between these two pistols, do you have a favorite for SCSA matches?  Is the Black Mamba 6" barrel?

 

Thanks

[AzShooter]

49 minutes ago, Hoops said:

Nice pistols.

 

Curious....between these two pistols, do you have a favorite for SCSA matches?  Is the Black Mamba 6" barrel?

 

Thanks

My favorite is the 6 inch Black Mamba although I do take both to the Matches with me just in case.  The Mark IV has gotten me out of touble more than once.

 

I just got the Mamba back from Volquartsen and I'm running CCI-SV through it with no problems so I'll probably shoot that for the next few weeks.  Any misfires and I'll be back to my 617.

[PeterParfinik]

I think they are.  First I do a slo-mo video with and without the comp against a background that I can see what is actually happening with the gun.  In my experience I usually see a very minuscule positive affect dampening muzzle rise.  With the little affect the comps have on actual muzzle rise,  for me it comes down to perceived recoil.  When using a comp I feel that the dot is more stable and easier for me to track. 

 

 

 

[zzt]

Yeah.  When I was shooting the Scorpion with 6" barrel and their original comp it swung like a log.  When shooting steel I wished I had ordered the 4.5".  That was back in the day when I was trying to make one gun do everything.  I eventually learned.  Now every pistol I own (7) is built for a specific purpose.  In rimfire it is one specifically for bullseye and another for competition.  There are no compromises that way.

 

Having said that, I tried to save money by bringing my 1911 Open SCSA gun along as a backup to my USPSA Open 2011.  I figured I'd never have to use it.  While disassembling the 2011 for cleaning I discovered the tab the the trigger guard screw goes through had broken.  It had to go back to the manufacturer for warranty replacement.  So I did have to shoot the 1911 in competition.  That lasted exactly one match.  I immediately built a backup 2011 Open.  I really didn't want to spend the money, but the thought of three more matches with a suboptimal gun was not appealing.

 

I've also leaned another thing watching shooters at competitions.  The part that breaks is the one you didn't bring along a spare for.

[bigdawgbeav]

Take a look at this from Tandemkross from  a few years ago

 

[Hoops]

2 hours ago, bigdawgbeav said:

Take a look at this from Tandemkross from  a few years ago

 

Good video and imagery.  Now I need a comp and younger hands....

[RaylanGivens]

On 7/4/2021 at 11:40 AM, PeterParfinik said:

I think they are.  First I do a slo-mo video with and without the comp against a background that I can see what is actually happening with the gun.  In my experience I usually see a very minuscule positive affect dampening muzzle rise.  With the little affect the comps have on actual muzzle rise,  for me it comes down to perceived recoil.  When using a comp I feel that the dot is more stable and easier for me to track.

 

Do you also use a comp on your RFRO rifle?

 

Curious which comp you decided on if you do use one...  Thanks!

[zzt]

I watched a video comparing a bunch of different comps.  Sorry, I don't have the link.  It showed there were no differences between the comps in reducing muzzle rise.  I think the best you can do is a three up-port comp that is short and light.

 

I recently experimented with adding a Maddmacs comp to my raptor barrel.  It completely eliminated muzzle rise when using Mini-Mags.  I'm certain my other comps would do the same if I could clock them.  If I were buying a new comp I'd buy the Maddmacs steel challenge comp.

[UFO]

Here's my RFRO. Pic is from WSSC 2021 The Comp is an Allchin Rimfire Pistol.

Edited August 24, 2021 by UFO

[RaylanGivens]

On 8/24/2021 at 9:50 AM, zzt said:

I watched a video comparing a bunch of different comps.  Sorry, I don't have the link.  It showed there were no differences between the comps in reducing muzzle rise.  I think the best you can do is a three up-port comp that is short and light.

 

I recently experimented with adding a Maddmacs comp to my raptor barrel.  It completely eliminated muzzle rise when using Mini-Mags.  I'm certain my other comps would do the same if I could clock them.  If I were buying a new comp I'd buy the Maddmacs steel challenge comp.

 

I have a Briley Raptor barrel on order...  Not sure when it will get here...

 

I planned to get one of the Wiland Carolina Crusher Gen2 comps, but they seem to be out of stock...  Checked out the MaddMacs Steel Challenge comp...  Looks good...  is light and not too expensive...  only downside looks like it might be a pain to clean...  Will try one out... Have one on order...  Thanks for the tip!

[PeterParfinik]

Wiland Carolina Crusher Gen2 comp is what I have been using on both my RFPO and RFRO.  I tried a number of different comps and wound up liking this one.