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Weird DQ sequence


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15 hours ago, twodownzero said:

The MD has no control over match activities.

While I agree the MD can't prevent shooters from doing unsafe things, the way I read the situation, the MD was directing the shooter during both of the issues.  The MD saw the shooter flag themselves and failed to DQ them and then the MD failed to instruct the shooter to unload and show clear which lead to the DQ when the shooter came up again.

 

To clarify, I'm assuming the MD is also the RM as is common with most level one matches.  

Edited by Michael303
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Stop.  Clear and Secure the Gun!!!!  Then figure it all out.  DQ, reshoot, whatever.  But Clear and Secure should always be the first action of both the shooter and the RO.

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I have been told that unless the MD/RM is actually running the shooter as RO/ARO/CRO, it's bad form to make calls from the peanut gallery.  Part of that discussion was that the RM is responsible for range safety but outside the actual shooting aspect during the CoF, things like safe areas, eyes/ears, gun handling at berms, etc. then they deal with whatever the RO/ARO/CRO raise
 

Honestly I am still trying to assess that POV

 

 

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In my opinion, Anyone who sees something unsafe taking place can and should holler out to STOP, think shooter and RO getting ready to start and neither sees the person down range taping targets,. BUT the RO is still in control if physically able to direct the shooter, which is Stop, unload and show clear, hammer down, holster. Now the reason of the peanut gallery saying stop is assessed and the appropriate rules should be applied, ie DQ, Reshoot or what ever. Now it is up to the RO to call what HE/SHE saw, NOT what someone else saw or what they think they may have saw and to make the stage safe and ready to use again.

Edited by mchapman
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On 6/27/2021 at 9:20 AM, Cuz said:


while I don’t necessarily disagree with you, I can’t help but think that when a new shooter is DQd so early, the rest of the squad, or at least someone there with experience needs to share a little bit of the blame.

+1. At my club we give a thorough briefing to new shooters, and then watch/help/coach them carefully until it is clear they have become comfortable. 

 

the way I read the original situation, I would not call a dq, since the shooter was clearly told to do something by a person in authority. I would give a thorough and educational ass-chewing to everyone involved. Officials simply can't let this sort of thing happen.

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6 hours ago, mchapman said:

In my opinion, Anyone who sees something unsafe taking place can and should holler out to STOP, think shooter and RO getting ready to start and neither sees the person down range taping targets,. BUT the RO is still in control if physically able to direct the shooter, which is Stop, unload and show clear, hammer down, holster. Now the reason of the peanut gallery saying stop is assessed and the appropriate rules should be applied, ie DQ, Reshoot or what ever. Now it is up to the RO to call what HE/SHE saw, NOT what someone else saw or what they think they may have saw and to make the stage safe and ready to use again.

anyone can call a stop for an unsafe situation (like a person or animal downrange, or a range equipment failure like a popper blowing over). In general, no one except the match officials should be calling stop for a dq event, but in practice, at a local club match, where people are trading off RO duties, and you usually have fewer RO's than at a major match, it is not unreasonable for another squad member who has sufficient experience to call something that the timer RO may not have fully seen. I wouldn't consider this the 'peanut gallery', just other RO's on the squad that are not currently running the timer.

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1 hour ago, motosapiens said:

anyone can call a stop for an unsafe situation (like a person or animal downrange, or a range equipment failure like a popper blowing over). In general, no one except the match officials should be calling stop for a dq event, but in practice, at a local club match, where people are trading off RO duties, and you usually have fewer RO's than at a major match, it is not unreasonable for another squad member who has sufficient experience to call something that the timer RO may not have fully seen. I wouldn't consider this the 'peanut gallery', just other RO's on the squad that are not currently running the timer.

Oh I completely agree.

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On 6/27/2021 at 6:22 PM, SGT_Schultz said:

He sure as hell does if he's also the Range Master, which is what happens in pretty much every level 1 match I've ever been to.

 

 

The MD/RM was directly responsible for assuming control of the stage and creating a confusing mess.  The RO was proximately responsible for not correcting the unsafe act (shooter walking away with a pistol in an unsafe condition

 

True about the MD if he's also the RM.  Also true about a random homeless guy in the peanut gallery if he's also the RM.

 

I agree with the second claim.  The shooter is also responsible.

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1 hour ago, twodownzero said:

The shooter is also responsible.

Strictly speaking yes, but a complete noob is not expected to know the nuances like a trained and certified RO or even just an experienced shooter.

 

So he gets a slight pass in my book.

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RO’S need to be strong willed and assertive No matter you’s yelling in the back. They need to be in control of the shooter at all times. 
I’ve seen a bunch of times where the RO is a talker and chatting it up with people not on the line or talking nonsense to the shooter. 
No place for that ! 
RO is an important job and I don’t think everybody’s cut out for it. 
not saying that’s the case here ! I have no idea. 
 

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23 hours ago, motosapiens said:

the way I read the original situation, I would not call a dq, since the shooter was clearly told to do something by a person in authority. I would give a thorough and educational ass-chewing to everyone involved. Officials simply can't let this sort of thing happen.

 

19 hours ago, SGT_Schultz said:

trictly speaking yes, but a complete noob is not expected to know the nuances like a trained and certified RO or even just an experienced shooter.

 

So he gets a slight pass in my book.

 I agree.      

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I wasn't there but I've been following this topic with interest since it started.

If this had happened at a match where I was the RM (LI, even), I would have been pissed to find out afterwards.

 

Shooter deserves a polite phone call, and an invitation for a free match next month. It should come with a commitment to squad him with helpful folks who know the game. 

 

I'm also just as disappointed that such a great teaching moment for a whole squad of ROs was (seemingly?) missed. 

It's one thing to sit here and read about it on the interwebs, but I can't help imagining how stressed I'd be to have been there, and not be able to make some moves to see it didn't happen again.

 

After the fact, even before our opinionated commentary, the priority would be to see these people didn't do something like that in the future.

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3 hours ago, ima45dv8 said:

... Shooter deserves a polite phone call, and an invitation for a free match next month. It should come with a commitment to squad him with helpful folks who know the game...

 

 

+1

 

and I hope it's not too late to do something like that for this particular individual

 

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22 hours ago, ima45dv8 said:

I wasn't there but I've been following this topic with interest since it started.

If this had happened at a match where I was the RM (LI, even), I would have been pissed to find out afterwards.

 

Shooter deserves a polite phone call, and an invitation for a free match next month. It should come with a commitment to squad him with helpful folks who know the game. 

 

I'm also just as disappointed that such a great teaching moment for a whole squad of ROs was (seemingly?) missed. 

It's one thing to sit here and read about it on the interwebs, but I can't help imagining how stressed I'd be to have been there, and not be able to make some moves to see it didn't happen again.

 

After the fact, even before our opinionated commentary, the priority would be to see these people didn't do something like that in the future.

Nice comment. Sometimes it’s call “Customer Service”

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The RO who gave the Make ready dropped the ball . Before he allowed the shooter to leave the shooting box he should have followed procedure and issued and unload and show clear . And holster . The RO running the shooter is in charge of the shooter .

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