650/750 vs 1050/1100

[jejb]

Long time reloader. Bought my 650XL a couple of years ago. Owned an RCBS progressive and MEC progressive for 20+ years before that. I like the 650 well enough and it's a low maint machine as far as having to tweak this or that to keep it producing. That's one of the reasons I went Dillon. My RCBS seemed like it needed regular tuning and I heard the same about the Hornady progressive. The 650 is a very solid machine. Once setup for a load, it just goes and goes.

 

Anyway, I've been looking at the 1050/1100, wondering if there is much gain there. I understand the stroke difference, primer seating difference and apparent smoothness difference. But my question is, will I produce bullets faster if I move up? And if so, why? I have very few problems with primer seating or primer pockets.

 

I searched for a thread about this and found a link, but it's very old and no longer working. So if there is a thread addressing this, I apologize and ask for a link to said topic.

 

Thanks

[Michael303]

It think it depends on which and how many calibers you regularly load and if you have to run them through the press twice or not.  One big advantage with the 1100 is you can add a bullet dropper without having to seat and crimp at the same time.  The bullet dropper will make it significantly faster.

[Intheshaw1]

I think if you're only doing pistol rounds and already have a case and bullet feeder for your 650 you likely won't be gaining a lot other than easier pull and swage if you need it. I know a lot of guys with the 650/750s that crank out a ton of pistol rounds but I just picked up a 1050 primary for 223.

 

If you plan to automate eventually I would consider a bigger press as well.

 

 

[Sigarmsp226]

Jejb - Just another view point.... I have a 650 and have loaded on it for years. I have every caliber conversion set up on separate tool heads to load when needed...I, like you told myself that I wanted (did not need) another Dillon press so I ordered the RL1100....I did this for two reasons -

1> Swage Station - I refuse to allow brass to remain on the ground when I go to the range so I pick up anything that is on the ground and a lot of the 223, 308, and some of the 9mm are military brass...Problem solved - no more sorting brass because the 1050/1100 series swages every round......

2> One extra post powder drop station that can be used with a bullet drop or powder cop while still allowing you to seat and crimp in two separate operations.......

 

Here is what I quickly learned - Because I have everything I need to load all of the calibers I shoot on my 650 - I decided to load my highest volume round (9mm) on the RL1100 and then purchase only what is needed to swage the other two calibers on the RL1100.  Caliber conversion kits and tool heads for the 1050/1100 are signifcantly more expensive than the 650 so for me this seemed to be the logical method...I am sure others will be able to share their ideas and comments.....Mark

 

To Intheshaws point - Eventually I think I will put an auto-drive on my RL1100....

Edited May 31, 2021 by Sigarmsp226

[dansedgli]

Its not much faster.

 

Get one if you want swaging or autodriving or need adjustable primer seating. Otherwise don't bother. 

 

My 1050 is autodriven and I am contemplating downgrading to a manual 750 and pocketing the difference for other things. 

 

I could even sell 2 toolheads and buy a 750 down here.  

[HesedTech]

3 hours ago, jejb said:

But my question is, will I produce bullets faster if I move up? And if so, why? I have very few problems with primer seating or primer pockets.

 All of the above.

 

If you are producing ammo which meets your quality and at a pace which fills your needs, why send the money on a 1050/1100?

 

I have a 1050 with ammobot drive, 550 and a good old single stage Lee. I had a 650 and replaced it with a 1050 for speed, swage station, primer adjustability and production numbers. It also requires less maintenance than the 650 for high volume.

 

For large production not pulling the handle is really nice! But it all costs $$$$

Edited May 31, 2021 by HesedTech

[ddc]

1 hour ago, Sigarmsp226 said:

Jejb - Just another view point.... I have a 650 and have loaded on it for years. I have every caliber conversion set up on separate tool heads to load when needed...I, like you told myself that I wanted (did not need) another Dillon press so I ordered the RL1100....I did this for two reasons -

1> Swage Station - I refuse to allow brass to remain on the ground when I go to the range so I pick up anything that is on the ground and a lot of the 223, 308, and some of the 9mm are military brass...Problem solved - no more sorting brass because the 1050/1100 series swages every round......

2> One extra post powder drop station that can be used with a bullet drop or powder cop while still allowing you to seat and crimp in two separate operations.......

 

Here is what I quickly learned - Because I have everything I need to load all of the calibers I shoot on my 650 - I decided to load my highest volume round (9mm) on the RL1100 and then purchase only what is needed to swage the other two calibers on the RL1100.  Caliber conversion kits and tool heads for the 1050/1100 are signifcantly more expensive than the 650 so for me this seemed to be the logical method...I am sure others will be able to share their ideas and comments.....Mark

 

To Intheshaws point - Eventually I think I will put an auto-drive on my RL1100....

 

There is no "extra powder drop station" on the 1100. I wish there was. Both the 650 and the 1100 have three stations following the powder drop.

Edited May 31, 2021 by ddc
additional comment

[SnipTheDog]

Dillon's numbers are expected rounds per hour.  1100 - 1100 rounds per hour.  So the 1100/1050 will be about twice as fast as the 650.

[Boomstick303]

As mentioned by others above it comes down to dollars for your purposes. You did not mention brass processing or loading rifle rounds at a high volume.  This is where the larger progressives are the better tool in my eyes. Or if you want to automate a press I believe it’s better on the larger press due to the swaging station alone. For processing 223/5.56 brass the large progressives are a dream. I have picked peoples brains about 223/5.56 processing on 650/750 and there seems to be a little more involved. For automation and you would want to re-load in one pass (versus processing brass then re-loading) the swaging station would prevent more stoppages when you did have the occasional issue with a pistol round primer pocket. 

 

The only issue I have with the Dillon Super 1050 I have is the cost of the tool heads. Those alone are about $250 a piece so keep that in mind if you load multiple calibers. Even with the expensive costs of the tool heads the ability to efficiently process 223/5.56 brass, reload pistol rounds in one pass, and create and load 300 BLK rounds makes the purchase of my 1050 well worth it. 

 

If if I had no interest in rifle rounds or processing brass I would have purchased a smaller press. It does all that you need it to do. Plus round conversions are way cheaper. 

[Boomstick303]

4 minutes ago, ddc said:

There is no "extra powder drop station" on the 1100. I wish there was. Both the 650 and the 1100 have three stations following the powder drop.

Edited 3 minut

 

Maybe his quote was poorly worded. I believe he is speaking to the fact if you install a bullet dropper you have to use a combination bullet seater/crimper on the last station. It’s one of the reasons I went with the 1050. 

[ddc]

16 minutes ago, Boomstick303 said:

 

Maybe his quote was poorly worded. I believe he is speaking to the fact if you install a bullet dropper you have to use a combination bullet seater/crimper on the last station. It’s one of the reasons I went with the 1050. 

 

That very well could be.

 

Also something else to consider that I don't ever see addressed directly:

 

One of the things that may not be obvious if you are new to the 1050/1100 family and just comparing the number of stations is that the 1100’s eight stations are not as much of an advantage over the 650’s five stations as the raw number may suggest.

 

On the 650 station 1 multiplexes both case insertion and sizing/decapping.

Station 2 multiplexes both primer insertion and powder dropping.

Then 3,4,5 might be bullet drop, seating, crimping.

So the five stations do the work of seven.

 

On the 1050/1100 there is no multiplexing.

Assuming a one pass reloading process:

Station 1 is case insertion only.

Station 2 is typically sizing/decapping.

Station 3 is swaging.

Station 4 is primer insertion only (unless you get an aftermarket tool head)

Station 5 is powder drop only.

Then stations 6,7,8 typically duplicate what is done on 3,4,5 on the 650.

 

So it takes five stations on the 1100 to accomplish what the 650 does with two.

Yes, one of those five is the additional swaging function, but you really aren’t getting three more stations of functionality on the 1100 when compared to the 650.

[SnipTheDog]

If you're going full monty, look into the Apex line also Apex Link

[jejb]

Sorry folks, I remembered after posting that I should have mentioned I only load 9mm with my 650. I load several other calibers, but very low quantity. I use my old RCBS for that since I already have the dies. And I use the RCBS dies for the 650, so I already have an open station if I wanted to add a bullet dropper. 

 

I appreciate the input so far.

[jejb]

24 minutes ago, SnipTheDog said:

Dillon's numbers are expected rounds per hour.  1100 - 1100 rounds per hour.  So the 1100/1050 will be about twice as fast as the 650.

But why would that be if both are setup the same, like not motorized and no bullet feeder? 

[NETim]

I can turn out a BUNCH of ammo pretty quickly on my 650, especially since I added Mr. Bulletfeeder   It is simply amazing frankly.   

 

No, I've never loaded on a 1050 or an 1100.   I'm not sure either one would turn out better ammo or do it faster than my 650.   But since I've never loaded ammo on either, I can't say that with certainty.   There's a reason Dillon makes them and they sell them.   

 

If I had unlimited funds (and shot a LOT more than I do), I'd get an 1100 for the swaging/primer seating adjustment (and automate it) but I'm getting along fine with the 650 as is.   (I do have a Dillon Super Swager bolted to the bench alongside the 650 to swage the occasional crimped brass.)

 

Bottom line, for me, it comes down to $$$$. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[SnipTheDog]

1 hour ago, jejb said:

But why would that be if both are setup the same, like not motorized and no bullet feeder? 

Are you arguing for the 50 rounds/hour difference?  That can easily be made up by a smoother press.  That's less than one extra bullet made per minute within the hour.

[ddc]

2 hours ago, jejb said:

But why would that be if both are setup the same, like not motorized and no bullet feeder? 

 

I have both. 650 and 1100.

If set up the same they will produce approximately the same.

If they are both set up the same there is no way the 1100 does twice what the 650 does. Or anything close to that.

The perceived difference in production is due to the 1100 coming with a case feeder where the 650 does not.

Edited May 31, 2021 by ddc

[Sigarmsp226]

DDC - Good call out Sir as you are correct and the way I worded my comment made it sound like there was one “more” station on the 1050/1100 than the 650 which as we all know is not true.....Boomstick was right - I worded my comment poorly and it really reads incorrectly.....

 

Never hesitate to correct me whenever I post incorrect or inaccurate information. It is never my intent to mislead or misrepresent myself to anyone and I appreciate both of you gentlemen supporting and correcting my earlier comments....Mark

[Bakerjd]

I was in your boat about 2 weeks ago and asked a LOT of questions, checked out the 650 and 1050 at a few friends houses. I found that for me having to do things on the up stroke was not something I liked. It wasnt natural for me. So I started looking at only reloading machines that were all down stroke. This left me with three viable options. Dillon 1050, dillon 1100 and M7 Apex 10. I dont anticipate going fully automatic so I didnt consider other presses. Although I can on the three i listed. My decision came down to cost vs my needs. I for sure wanted the bullet feeder. That was going to be bought regardless of press choice. Next was reliability. From everything I could find dillon was ahead in this category. Then ability to get it fast, I'm extremely impatient. Any of them I can basicly set up multiple tool heads and change pretty easily. I ended up with the RL1100. I could buy it, DAA mr bullet feeder, a second set of dies (will explain why), build a bench for it, get a couple accessories and still have money left over or buy the Apex 10. I dont need ten stations and if I really want to add one more I can get an aftermarket tool head, only slightly more expensive then the dillon one and add a station on top of priming. 

 

So I got a RL1100 for 40cal, Mr bullet feeder, primafill, extra primer tubes, the little magnetic case brush alignment thing by DAA, Lyman pro die set 9mm, DAA die wrench, caliber conversion for 9mm all ordered from DAA and had everything delivered in a week. Total cost came out to just over cost of an Apex 10 with out bullet feeder. 

 

Now I have everything to load 9mm, swapped the dies out from 40 to 9mm and swapped shell plate and to swap to 40cal just need a tool head if I want to no readjust dies every time. 

 

I love it. Super easy, and simple. And ths is from someone who never reloaded except to try out a few presses before buying. I've loaded 1k rounds so far and it's awesome. Should have done this 4 years ago when I started shooting USPSA. 

[ysrracer]

14 hours ago, Boomstick303 said:

 

Maybe his quote was poorly worded. I believe he is speaking to the fact if you install a bullet dropper you have to use a combination bullet seater/crimper on the last station. It’s one of the reasons I went with the 1050. 

 

I run my 750 with a sizing die in 1, powder in 2, bullet feeder in 3, seating in 4, crimp in 5.

 

I've loaded on a 1050 and they're nice, but I didn't find them any faster.

[ysrracer]

Here's me on a 1050

 

 

Edited June 1, 2021 by ysrracer

[jejb]

17 hours ago, SnipTheDog said:

Are you arguing for the 50 rounds/hour difference?  That can easily be made up by a smoother press.  That's less than one extra bullet made per minute within the hour.

No, I was asking why the 1100 would produce almost twice as many loads than the 650 if they were similarly equipped. DDC explained it though, since the 650 does not come with the case feeder. That would drastically slow things down. I have the case feeder on my 650. That was the reason I upgraded from my old RCBS progressive actually. There is no case feeder option for it.

Edited June 1, 2021 by jejb

[jejb]

16 hours ago, ddc said:

 

I have both. 650 and 1100.

If set up the same they will produce approximately the same.

If they are both set up the same there is no way the 1100 does twice what the 650 does. Or anything close to that.

The perceived difference in production is due to the 1100 coming with a case feeder where the 650 does not.

Thanks for the info. Watching videos, it looks like the 1050/1100 has a considerably bigger footprint. Since you have both, what is your take on that? That could be a concern for me as my bench has somewhat limited space. 

 

 

[George16]

21 minutes ago, jejb said:

Thanks for the info. Watching videos, it looks like the 1050/1100 has a considerably bigger footprint. Since you have both, what is your take on that? That could be a concern for me as my bench has somewhat limited space. 

 

 

The foot print difference is insignificant to me. I used to have a 650 but sold it after a got my 1100. Now, I only have the 1100 and 550. The 1100 is used for small primer loading and processing .223 and 9mm while the 550 is used for loading .45 ACP and .308.

 

My bench is 48” wide and 24” deep. The 550 is mounted on the left side of the table while the 1100 is on the right side.

 

650 and 1100

 

 

550, 650 and 1100 (it was crowded)

 

 

550 and 1100 (current setup)

 

[ddc]

9 hours ago, jejb said:

Thanks for the info. Watching videos, it looks like the 1050/1100 has a considerably bigger footprint. Since you have both, what is your take on that? That could be a concern for me as my bench has somewhat limited space. 

 

 

 

The photos by George16 tell the story. Although the 1100 is a little wider pretty much anyplace you can stick a 650 the 1100 will go there also.